The Fifty Greatest Lightweights of all Time

Not sure how to rate Crawford yet.

Burns, Beltran and Gamboa are quality victories in terms of re current landscape, but obviously historically speaking they are lacking a bit.

If he beats Postol to become lineal champ in a second division I'll start believing in his talents and rate him higher.

Speaking of which, by the time McG gets to Flyweight Gonzalez will probably be top tier there.

Back to LW though. Good stuff so McG.

 

After Duran beat Leonard ,Arcel said Duran was the best lightweight of all time.
Arcel only worked with the fat and broke welterweight version of Benny

 

Nope. Mosley was never lineal. TC gained lineage by beating Beltran (they were number one and two respectively).

 

Dont you have to include Hammering Hank at lightweight?

 

Nazarov and Johnston were considered better at the time, too. Beating number three at best doesn't make you lineal.

 

He's currently in Tier III

 

Nazarov was not retired in 1997, Ras. He was still WBA champion and had defended the title against Levander Johnson only months before Mosley faced Holiday. He would go on to fight three more times after Mosley had won the strap.

Here are the Ring Annual Ratings for the end of 1997:

1. Orzubek Nazarov
2. Shane Mosley
3. Stevie Johnston
4. Philip Holiday
5. George Scott
6. Azumah Nelson
7. Israel Cardona
8.Jean-Baptiste Mendy
9. Artur Grigorian
10. Cesar Bazan

Mosley faced a couple of really legitimate contenders during his reign, and he didn't meet any other titleholder. He was never lineal.

In contrast, Crawford was rated number one by TBRB and Ring, and Beltran was rated number two. In the instance where there is a vacancy, the top two contenders can meet to become champion. That occurred in this case.

 

Corrales knocked off prime versions of Casamayor, Freitas, and Castillo in title fights back to back to back. That's one of the best three fight runs ever at that weight.


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No way was that a robbery. It was a close fight. And few people had Barerra 3-0 over Morales either.


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Pretty sure you're the only one to score fight like that.


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Being recognized as the best in the division and being lineal are two different thing, Ras. And titles don't factor into the equation unless someone unifies all of 'em (without an existing lineal champ being present in that division).

Mosley may have become number one, but that was only after Nazarov got shot and lost to Mendy, and then only after Johnston had lost to Bazan the first time around. Holiday wasn't in the picture at that point, and even if he had been, Mosley never faced him in defence of his title (or anyone else in the Top 5 for that matter). So, he was never lineal champion. Simple as that.

Meanwhile, TC was considered number one by Ring and TBRB. Beltran kind of backed into the number two slot since everyone else wasn't fighting, or fighting well. It was a weak division...And you can definitely make a case that TC falls outside the Top 50 as a result. But...he was lineal, because the consensus top two guys in the division (regardless of what you or anyone else says), fought to fill a vacancy. Again, simple as that.

So, TC was lineal and SSM wasn't. But SSM looked to be more impressive at 135lbs- albeit against opposition that wasn't really better than that of Crawford's.

 

Thanks for proving my point. Michealscewski, Gonzalez and Erdei were all existing lineal champions in the LH at a point when RJJ held the majority of the belts in the division. Again, collecting belts does not make you lineal. Simple as that.

To the other points,

Regardless of the reason for Beltran being elevated into the number two position, he was there. Abril was inactive and Vasquez looked horrid against Bey so moving Rey up wasn't out of the question.

And, given Mosley's quality of opposition, there's no way you should rate him that high, Ras. Sometimes who you fight is just as important as how you look.

 

It hurts to see Armstrong so low.

I know why you've done it, but it hurts.

 

Just curious McG, what was your basis for putting Gans at No. 1 over Benny and Duran?