THE FINALS: The All-time Heavyweight H2H Tourney: LEWIS vs. ALI

No Loudon, of course not. All modern day HW champions would get destroyed by a primitive classic era champion who ruled his era 90 years ago when the sport was far more primitive and crude :roll: He he beat a glass-jawed strongman and circus attraction from Italy, so he *MUST* be able to beat modern day SHWs right? We've been through this 100 times, it's pathetic this arguments come up all the time.

 

madballster,

If you knew ANYTHING about boxing, you'd realise that some fighters from today would beat some guys from yesteryear.

Likewise, some fighters from yesteryear would also beat some of today's guys across all weight divisions.

Go and analyse the skills of Joe Louis and Muhammad Ali, and then tell me who would beat them today.

The sad thing is, you've never even studied footage of Louis and Ali.

Because if you had've done, and you'd have really studied them, then it would be obvious to you that those two guys were two of the most skilled HW's of all time, with far more skill than the majority of today's guys.

Name me all of today's top HW's who are more skilled than Louis and Ali were.

Show me this huge list.

Lets analyse their balance, technique, defence, timing, stamina, chin, hand speed, footwork, heart, reflexes, power, skills and their shot variation etc.

 

No,
Weight matters the lower you go. A 185 pound can kayo a man of any size. The higher up you go , the more skills matter.

 

any version of Lennox is superior to Ali in skill level. that is very obvious when looking at the two of them.

the pre Manny Steward days when he was with Pepe Correa is far too good.

the Manny Steward version is far too good.

the skill set of Ali is the single most overrated aspect of boxing history. there is no doubt in my mind about that.

if anyone thinks that Ali wins on the outside, even though he's out-classed in such a big way, then what have you got to say when Lewis takes it on the inside??? don't tell me, Ali would be too strong and skilled, right???? bunch of loony tunes.

look at the Lewis that fought Rahman in the rematch, as well as the Tyson fight. look at his speed, snap, reaction times, Control of the ring, skill, timing, power, size etc etc...

you mean to tell me Ali is competing with that and not getting dominated with ease??

this is an older Lennox Lewis as well.

Ali does not win in any way. everything about Ali is overrated. his opponents like Foreman, Frazier, Liston and Norton are overrated. it wasn't the golden age of the Heavyweight division, it was the single most overrated era in boxing history along with having the most overrated fighters in history.

just check out the career achievements of Liston, Frazier, Norton and Foreman to see what the true definition of overrated truly means. they barely have diddly squat between them.

i wish we could bring back the two of them in their prime just to show everyone the real out-come and put all this nonsense to bed.
in fact, i'd like to bring back ALL Heavies back in their prime to show the real out-come. and i'll will tell you now, the Americans are going home to cry in their pillows when it's all said and done. because truth hurts.

but i'm done here. enjoy your biased and delusional ways.

 

Ali would eat enough jabs from LENNOX....game over, he was great at his time but with a 6"5 Lewis who knows to use his advantages....plus ALI does not have a KO power it'll be 245 vs 220 in weight

 

Dino's made a great point there.

I do place more faith in skill at HW, without a doubt.

Weight classes do exist for a reason. Now you've asked a great question with regards to Floyd. But you have to take lots of things into consideration. Not just the difference in size and weight, but the the stylistic differences and the mentality of each fighter. Psychology plays such a huge part in sports.

I think the size disparity between Floyd and Froch could be overcome, but not by Floyd himself. Because in my opinion, Floyd wouldn't go anywhere near Carl, even if we lived in an era with only eight weight classes. Floyd weighs in at about 150, and Carl probably weighs about 173 ish on fight night. He is also taller and bigger than Floyd in every department. But look at how he fights, and look at how Floyd fights. Carl wouldn't respect his power and would just try to walk him down. Floyd in my honest opinion has ducked Manny, so it inconceivable to think that he'd fight Carl, even if we lived in a different world. But supposing he was forced into the fight, then he'd just look to survive and to stay in one piece. He obviously wouldn't try and fight Carl, and he wouldn't be active enough to win the rounds. So I can't see how he'd win. He'd either get caught and stopped or he'd survive and lose a decision. He would just try to not get hurt. I think that would be his main objective. It's the same with the other guys. He'd just worry more and more about his health, and would do less and less, just looking to survive. So there's no way he could win in my opinion.

So you do have to draw a line somewhere. But again, it's not just the size and weight difference, it's how they'd match up stylistically, and how they'd both approach the fight. I've recently been reading about Stanley Ketchell. He was a 5'9 MW, who went on to fight Jack Johnson at HW. Johnson outweighed him by over 30 pounds, and was 6ft, with a 74' reach. Their fight was scheduled for 20 rounds, and Johnson knocked him out in the 12th. Ketchel then had a few comeback fights, and planned to return to HW, but he was sadly murdered the following year at only 24. So that's something to think about.

But I'm glad you asked me those questions, because I think about lots of crazy fights, and wonder what the outcomes would be if I'd got a time machine, and I could make any fight I wanted. For example, I'd give someone like Mike McCallum a huge chance against much bigger guys. I think when he was peak, you could have matched him with certain LHW's and even CW's. I'd do the same with Roy when he was at MW and SMW. I'd take Roy from the Toney fight that weighed around 173, and put him in the ring with someone like Chris Arreola, and my money would be on Roy. Outstanding fighters that have exceptional, skill, speed, power, or all three, could overcome huge weight, height and reach disparities in my opinion, against a less skilled fighter. I'd take both Mike and Roy over someone like Valuev too.

Good debate.

 

Uneducated ignorance, pure and simple.

Seriously, who are you to rubbish the careers of Liston, Frazier, Norton and Foreman etc?

You are a joke!

Let's put some things into perspective here, before you **** on all of these fighters saying that they were rubbish and they achieved nothing.

What if I said the following:

Lewis was knocked out by McCall and Rahman. He also went life and death with an old Ray Mercer, and Frank Bruno even caused him trouble.

Vitali quit against Byrd, and hasn't beaten any outstanding fighters.

Wlad has been knocked out by Puritty, Sanders, Brewster, has been life and death with Peter, he struggled with Haye's movement and he's just hugged Potvetkin to death.

We can all go down the route.

The sad thing is, you've probably never even watched the guys you've trashed.

Are you saying that Frazier, Foreman and Ali, wouldn't have success today?

Foreman would probably brutalise half of today's HW's. He won the title back at 45. Frazier would also cause today's guys problems. As for Ali at 25, who the hell would have beaten Ali who's around today?

Wlad, Arreola, Haye, Fury, Potvetkin? Do me a favour.

You're such an idiot!

In one breath you're trashing the old guys, then the next minute you're saying 'look how great Lewis looked against Rahman and Tyson. Look at his speed, snap and power etc'

Ha!

Tyson was SHOT!!

His corner screamed at him 'Mike! Just let your f***in hands go!'

His response was 'I can't!'

He lost to Danny Williams and Kevin McBride afterwards.


Then there's Rahman. You're slagging Liston, Foreman, Frazier and Ali, well what the f**k did Rahman achieve???

How can you slag those old fighters, then tell people how great Lewis looked against an old Tyson and Hasim Rahman?

Then you sign off by calling people biased and delusional.

Irony doesn't even skim the surface!


I F***ING DESPAIR!!

 

This is a bull Crap Tourney.

Just like Roger mayweather said most people dont know **** about boxing.

Joe louis would have knocked out lennox lewis yall just go by size.

yall dont study fighters and skill

 

Joe louis had great skill you really think he could not find a way to get past wlad he is countering over that jab and knocking wlad clean out skills pay the bills.

Only heavyweights i would possibly take over a prime joe louis is mike tyson or Ali

that is because tysons explosiveness and Alis great movement