THE FINALS: The All-time Heavyweight H2H Tourney: LEWIS vs. ALI

That was a good point up until you said the Klitschkos are bums. They are not, they are good intelligent fighters, the best of their era.

Did they have great competition?? Not really.

Were they as exciting as previous heavyweight greats Liston, Ali, Tyson, Holmes, Johnson. Dempsey etc??? No, not even close.

Do they have effective fighting styles??? Yes, without doubt.

Head to head can they beat the previous great champions of the past???? Well possibly, they have many advantages over them but also disadvantages as well.

People don't have to like Vitali and Wlad, but to not recognise them as top heavyweight fighters is absurd.

 

Ha ha, got here late then! Assasin already putting the wind up others I see!
I actually quoted a lot of similar quotes back to him too Loudon, it made no odds and he simply said "Frazier having only a left hook!" was apparently the same as "OK, Frazier threw a small amount right-hooks and they weren't good". He started back-pedalling and couldn't back up the vehemence of the initial troll essentially. A toss-spewing nuisance on this forum for me.

Anywho's, the actual fight in question is a difficult one to pick for me and genuinely one I can't imagine. The hardest thing to imagine is the reaction-speed of both fighters and who can deal with who's style best over the three fights.
For example, I can see Lewis throwing a good jab and the elusive Ali slipping it but what about when Lewis goes "street" and starts throwing powerful combos that surprise...bombs-in-bunches, if you will?
I go with Ali eventually, he can score points by his expert timing and countering and then spoiling inside. Winning just 2 of the 3 takes all his squirming, dirty-tactics, nous and sheer bravery but I think he takes it with more of a chance in the latter of the trilogy.

 

Well then you don't know nothing about boxing if you believe that. The footage on film in the majority of his fights tells a different story. A master at controlling distance would not be nicknamed 'Clinchko'
Go watch Holmes or Bowe and learn the sport ffs.

 

I'm really enjoying this debate.

I haven't seen any footage, but I've read little snippets here and there.

That must have been great.

Where was it? What year? I can't remember.

A few things to consider though:

Shaq wouldn't have had any respect of Oscar's power, and he'd have gone in there with no fear, looking to prove a point, over just a few rounds. I'm also assuming they'd have had head gear on. Also, Shaq is a huge guy. Shaq is just over 7ft, and he weighs around 300 pounds. Oscar is 5'10.

Now I know we're only joking and having some great fun with these fantasy fights, but again, I'm serious when I say I'd have picked Tommy. Now this is only my opinion, but what happened with Shaq is completely irrelevant to me. Because in our fantasy fight, it wouldn't have been an exhibition with big gloves and headgear etc. In our fantasy fight, it would be a 12/15 round fight. Also, in my honest opinion, Audley wouldn't have gone at Tommy like Shaq did with Oscar. Because Audley would certainly have respected Tommy's power, and he's been knocked out many times.

As I've mentioned, psychology and circumstances play a huge part in the outcome of a fight. Now obviously, Audley would have had big advantages in size etc. But this wouldn't be Shaq trying to prove a point, with a once in a life time opportunity against a 5'10 guy. This would be Audley against a 6'1 guy, with a 78' reach, with dynamite power in his hand. So the circumstances in my honest opinion, would have been completely different. Shaq obviously relished the opportunity, whereas Audley has been overawed many times, just freezing in certain instances. Although Tommy would have been outweighed by a huge amount, he would have possessed his famous 'Cobra' like jab, as well as being a great, fast boxer.

Now people reading this, might think that I've had a tab of acid, but when I throw everything into the mix, most notably Tommy's skills, size and power, against Audley's weak mindset and his other vulnerabilities, then I am, in all seriousness, picking Tommy.

 

Hi mate,

I've read his responses to you in the other thread.

He winds me up.

Ali vs Lewis would have been a hell of a fight, and I think Ali could have gotten to him psychologically.

 

remember when i constantly called you a hypocrite, Loudon??

remember??

you've just called me the most disrespectful poster on the forum because i spoke the truth. but for you, like in this post regarding Audley Harrison, have just rubbished him by pointing out his weaknesses and his faults.

it's okay for you isn't it?? :huh

oh, and regardless of how mentally weak Harrison may be, he isn't losing to any Welter in the history of the sport. especially one that had less than a good chin.

weirdo!

 

why do people keep reading into my posts something i never even said???

other Era's are called great when in fact, they are nothing of the sort.

they're not bad Era's when viewed properly and without rose coloured glasses. but when viewed as to call them "great Era's" they just don't stand up to scrutiny.

there are great fighters before Lewis, but none with his ability or achievements.

 

Ha!

How is what I've wrote about Audley, ANYTHING like what you've written??

I haven't been disrespectful. I've said he's mentally weak.

I haven't mentioned any words like trash, moron and moronic etc, like you have.

 

Your last sentence is highly debatable, and it needs analysing in depth.

Lennox was a great, great fighter. But you have to take a lot of things into consideration, and put things into context when ranking a guy's achievements. It's not a straight forward task.

Lennox had some great wins, most notably the Ruddock one. But other than Vitali, which is a highly controversial topic, Lennox never beat a great fighter while they were prime. He unified the division by beating a faded Evander, but then lost two of the belts to Hasim Rahman, just two years later. Many people also believe that he lost to Ray Mercer. I'm not trying to rubbish his achievements, I'm just looking at what many people have said over the years. It's highly subjective.

Have a look at the following list of fighters:

Mike Tyson
Muhammad Ali
Larry Holmes
Evander Holyfield
Rocky Marciano
Joe Louis
George Foreman

Then take the following things into consideration when assessing their achievements: Who did they fight? At what point? What were the circumstances involved? Who had their opponents beaten, just prior to their fight? Who did their opponents go on to beat afterwards? How dominant were they? How strong was their era? What opportunities did they have? How old were they? How many fights had they had?

You could also analyse their abilities, taking the following things into consideration:

Skill
Shot variation and shot selection (jab, hooks, body shots, uppercuts and combinations)
Power
Hand speed
Timing
Reflexes
Defence
Footwork (balance, speed)
Chin
Heart
Adaptability
Mental strength
Mental weaknesses


It would make for an interesting debate.

 

What comprises modern training methods? Weightlifting and steroid ****tails.

It don't care how much Lewis could lift or how many steroids he was one, he was not even close to as fast as Ali.

Speed kills.

Ali puts a clinic on him. Wouldn't be surprised if he gets a late round KO.

 

People talk about logic in this thread, yet they are incapable of applying logic themselves.

If Lewis fought in Ali's era, it is unlikely he would have been lifting weights and his knowledge of nutrition, (assuming he even used a nutritionist), wouldn't be on the same level as it is today.

If Ali fought in Lewis's era, he would have access to weights and nutritional information of this era.

Modern training techniques can basically be summarized as the addition of weights to aid in training.

There are other theories about timing your nutritional intake and interval training, but considering boxers often train in intervals, and there is still great debate about whether nutritional intake timing is important, the difference would be negligible.

Ali whups Lewis' ass in both eras.

SPEED KILLS.

End of THREAD.