The fine line of greatness.

Agree - Benitez is top of the list. I think Toney needed the cruiserweight title win over Jirov to cement his place.

 

It's good that James Toney has fans. It's absurd to question his standing as if he invented the sport i guess. Nobody has yet to make strong case for him without lowering the bar to the extreme.

 

Yep - That's pretty much what I'm saying.

 

Toney never got a gift decision against McCallum. Beat him fair and square. Tiberi yes. Not McCallum

 

He was definitely an inconsistent performer at middleweight who fought up or down to the level.of his opposition - if it was Michael Nunn or Mike McCallum he could be brilliant. If it was Dave Tiberi, he could be awful.

But the best version of Toney was a heck of a fighter.

 

Fighters who lose discipline from women, drugs, fame I can understand, but for Toney, Bowe, Arreola? Damn, they lost focus over..
Damn is all I can say.

 

although Toney is by far the better of those 3 guys.

 

I think Toney, in general, gets the respect he deserves from writers and pundits, but he is overrated on the boards.

I don't consider him an ATG. He's not quite there, for me.

 

One of the many things I like about JT, is his composure. Tarver has a pretty good vid where he admires how James can stand in the fire, reacts calm.
His shoulder roll a thing of beauty, his counter punching, his ability to slip a punch, barely steps one way and he's back out of range.

RJJ had to be mobile to beat Ruiz, JT was right there.

I know he doesn't have a signature win against a top name and his lack of consistency as pointed out here against guys like Tiberi makes it awfully difficult to say you're wrong about him.

 

me neither. Like McCallum he never excelled at the high level. I like Mike and James, but they lack something in elite fights. Big iconic fights, although James did have Jones. Good upset over Nunn

 

I understand why he has a fan base and admirers. He had a certain swagger about him, for sure.

As I recall it, he seemed to develop that 'in-the-pocket' style of fighting more so as his weight began to balloon, in the mid-90s. Either way, he was for quite some time doing things other fighters weren't, in terms of how he handled himself in the ring.

However, I would suggest that it didn't always pay off for him. I think his poise, combined with his ability to take a good shot, belied the amount of punishment he was taking.

 

I'd rate McCallum an ATG because he was consistent against a solid level of opposition. His only real blemish came in a decision loss to Kalambay, on having departed the Light Middleweight division for good.

McCallum was a few years past his prime by then, in my opinion, and yet had the skillset to go on and beat a few good Middleweights, avenging his Kalambay loss, along the way. He was 35 when he ran a close bout to a draw with the much, much younger James Toney. And, whilst he lost the rematch, this wasn't a bad loss, in my opinion. This more or less signified the end of his meaningful career.

However, prior to his campaigns at 160 and above, his 154 record was worthy of remark. Donald Curry, Milton McCrory, Julian Jackson and David Braxton are seriously good wins there. And, he was never defeated as a Light Middleweight.

McCallum will have done enough for some (like me) and not so for others. It took me a while to think of McCallum as a Great but, having looked at his work, over time, a little more closely, I am happy that he did enough to be up there with the Greats.

 

Classic stuff John as usual. You never disappoint. Greatness. However I think Hill is vastly overrated and I believe Qawi is a shoe in for the HOF and would have massacred Hill.

 

I thought Toney won all 3 against McCallum. Mike was always a step or half a step behind James. That was 1st rate boxing from both guys in the pocket beautiful stuff.
By the time Toney was fighting the likes of Peter I wasn't even watching him or too many HW's for that matter. By then I was fearing for his life.
Look I never argued the fact that Toney was his own worst enemy and essentially sabotaged what could have been an ATG career IMO. I'm arguing in his defense that he had ATG skills and if people can't see that well you all know what Roger Mayweather has to say.