The flaws in Ali's game

Self-glorification?

The FULL fight film shows a 12 second gain. This has been proven here several times.

 

Would it be more than human to trie and get at a bit bigger slice of the Ali legend?

 

But he didn't have the time. From the film you can also see Ali becoming much clearer after getting the smelling salts. But without that...

No rebuff of my reply to your 10 points, by the way?

 

Dundee was always willing to step back and give credit to his fighter.
I believe either the film was edited or the passage of years is playing tricks on his memory.

 

The three-to-four-minute break in the first Ali-Cooper fight is a myth. If Dundee said that, he was either badly confused or lying. You can watch the film with its contemporary commentator for confirmation if you like. The between-rounds break is shown uninterrupted, there is no break in the commentary (eg. he continues talking coherently on the same subjects rather than suddenly going from talking about folks looking for Ali's glove to the fact that the break has taken three minutes or somesuch) and a simple timing will show that it is no more than about seven seconds longer than a normal break.

 

I was wrong, it was 6 seconds.

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/news.php?p=6346&more=1

The full-fight film with the break in between rounds shows SIX seconds extra. That's 66 seconds in between rounds. And Ali comes out looking as if it was round 1, and proceeds to deliver one of the most brutal rounds you'll see.

 

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FULL break between rounds.

The bell sounds at 3.07. They start round 5 at 4.13.

:yep

 

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/news.php?p=6346&more=1

I know this thread has been slightly hijacked,but somedbody please find the full fight and post it on youtube.I seem to remember Bert Sugar and co discussing the fight on ESPN and just reiterating what everybody has just said.

edit: hehe,never mind....

 

I agree with your assessment. Ali's body punching was virtually non-existent. And when Ali was forced to be the aggressor, he seemed to be a fish out of water. His last fight that he had with Joe Bugner was clear evidence of this. Bugner was a tall guy who fought sort of passively, and Ali assumed the role of aggressor, which made him seem a little awkward and befuddled.

 

I think all the bases have been covered already, but just to chirp in...

My chief problem was that he lacked decent body punching skills. Obviously his style was geared around other fundamentals, but I can't regard a fighter as well-rounded without him knowing how to work the body, at least sometimes.

 

Well, Ali is a housegod here, so it will be hard to say anything bad about him, he he he!
To compare Ali from the 60´s Vs the 70`s is nearly impossible cause there is such a big difference. During the 60´s no one could hardly lay a hand on him cause of his fast movement and handspeed. He was a headhunter that´s for sure. Yes he held his hands low and that´s cause it´s damn impossible to dance around that way with your guard up all the time, you can do it with your right but not both hands, you get much more stiff.
he´s the only champion that never ducked anyone, he fought them all and beat the best.
One of his favourite punches was the right upercut, he also had a pretty sharp left hook aspecially during the 60´s. You can´t compare it with Fraziers for example, it´s a matter of style, it´s like saying Frazier´s jab wasn´t as fast as Ali´s.
Ali was a defensive fighter and a master counterpuncher, a matter of style again, but when he went for the kill he was lethal. Check out the Cleveland Williams fight.
So to the cooper fight. I will recall that when Dundee "helped" the glove to get damaged, they had to run out and get some new gloves and I think that doing that in 12 or 7 seconds is hard, no one is that fast, not even Clay, he he he! I heard 1 minute extra but not 3-4 minutes. Don´t know about the smelling salt, first time I´ve heard about it. however if Dundee says it was that long it probably was, he knows, he was there, movies can be edited.
Yeah, that left hook of Coopers was one of the reasons Liston´s people gave Ali the titlefight. If Cooper could land that left hook what should Liston do to this young kid who was a left hook expert, well we all know what happened.
All the best, friends
The Predator

 

If you feel he won Norton III, you're disagreeing with who Ali himself said won the fight minutes afterwards.

He didn't win the Young fight either. No debate if you know how to score a fight.