The flaws in Ali's game

It may as well have been. The suggestion here is that Young is winning the round, landing the better punches, then ducks under the ropes...at that point the judges decide that's the only thing that counts towards 'scoring' and give Ali the round. :huh


ps. I think the fact that Ali was ahead vs Spinks after 12 rounds tells anyone what they need to know about 'fair scoring' during his second tenure as champ (which is probably the most boring title reign in boxing history by the way).

 

Count? :huh

 

Well, at one point Young get an standing 8 for his antics, and that does make difference with the judges.

It's true that Ali got away with a lot of holding, but ducking between the ropes is worse IMO. I can see an argument for Young losing just about every round he did that. It wasn't like he was winning those rounds clearly, anyway. Most rounds was quite close and very boring.

 

Fine. In that round.

Yes, incredibly boring but Young did the better work throughout. I don't recall judges at Frazier II deducting Ali points for his constant holding. If he won the round, then held Joe, the judges still gave awarded him the stanza- that's fine. However, it seems they decided to penalise Young for his 'tactics' and award Ali the round.

 

I can't say for sure how the judges scored either in the Young fight or the ones against Frazier. But personally; if it's a fairly close round otherwise and one guy is agressive and the other guy is content to hold and run I'll give the round to the agressor. And even more so, if the illegal defensive tactic consists of sticking your bloody head out the ropes.

 

with all his flaws still one of the best heavys ever,he was the top fighter for 2 decades the 60's and the 70's

 

Of course. His flaws were nullified in the sixties by speed and reflex, flaws were countered in the seventies by heart and chin.

 

I'm not certain that smelling salts were illegal in British Boxing at the time, I thought they were only outlawed in the late 80's? Someone here must be able to confirm one way or the other.

Regardless, I think Ali's main flaw was a poor inside game. Many minor flaws have been mentioned here and I agree with most but not sure they could be classed as a flaw. For example, Ali's defence (or lack of) was an advantage early in his career as it encouraged opponents to throw shots that Ali knew he could counter easily. Other fighters have employed this tactic before and since but Ali was the master at it. If he wanted to land a left hook he could drop his arms, lean in and be out of range by the time an opponent has thrown a straight right leaving Ali with the opportunity to unload (see Clay v Cooper cant remember the round but Ali knocks out Cooper's gum shield doing this very trick). This therefore only became a flaw as his reflexes slowed.

However, a limitation of the boxer was definately his inside game. I cant recall any impressive work of Ali's on the inside.

 

That is a good summation

 

That's not an untrue statement, but it's a bit of an oversimplification. He easily beat guys like Ellis and Quarry without having to really rely on his chin or heart. It was only after Manilla that he needed those attributes to overcome every opponent that wasn't downright mediocre.

 

Off topic, but regarding your avatar... I met a Norwegian Blue the other day who travels to every game at Goodison. People in glass houses and all that...

 

Was he an ex-parrot?

 

Well, I wasn't intending to talk about every single fight he ever had. Fighters like, say, Lubbers and Dunn would hardly expose those flaws.

 

I don't see how lack of an in-fight game is a flaw.

He was a tall, rangy, fast boxer who didn't NEED to go forward Frazier-style. Holding or moving away was simply more effective for him.

If you say it makes him less of a complete fighter, then fine, but that's different from having a "flaw" in your game. Does anyone think he would've been off better by trading on the inside with Frazier or bobbing and weaving while moving inside? That's giving a shorter, slower, more powerful fighter (basically every Ali-opponent) and edge he shouldn't have.

 

It wasn't a flaw as such in his prime as he never needed an inside game as he was so good on the outside. Thats where he controlled opponents. However, it was exposed during his post exile years in the ring. When he slowed down and fighters got inside thats when he struggled inside. It was clearly a flaw then.