The Four Who Baffled Liston Feb 1964 article.

WRONG! Liston was frustrated by Machen's counter punching and went low unpurpose. He was flirting with a DQ. You are 100% wrong on this one.

To baffle someone, you do not need to beat them.

Liston fails to stop Whitehurst in two tries. Yes--Whitehurst was badly hurt outside the ropes in the last round, but it doesn't change the official result.

Liston lost to Marshall and failed to stop him in the 3rd match.

He failed to stop Summerlin in both matches.

Now let's suppose Liston NEVER fought Machen, Whitehurst, or Summerland, and there was a fantasy fight 5 times between them and Liston?


Still with me?

Who here honestly would pick Sonny on points every time...Zero knockouts? Indeed, hence these three baffled him from that point of view. The results did not live up to Liston " the monster's " expections . No sir they did not!

One match with Summerland was a split decision.

Suppose Liston never fought Marshall, would anyone pick him to lose? Now way, yet he did!

Only Two? Add Summerland's name as they fought twice. So make it three of the names mentioned. And Liston failed to stop Marshall in two of three fights.

You can't be taken seriously as you ignore points made and post jibberish.

In 8 fights vs Machen, Summerland, Whitehurst, and Marshal, Sonny Liston only had one stoppage and not one of them was 200 pounds or more.

Some fighters accuse Liston of putting a substance on his gloves to burn their eyes.

 

There is no film, and fighters often laugh or smile when they get hurt.

Whether he was laughing hard or mocking Marshall to me is irrelevant.

Marshall was not a puncher. Just 10 Ko's in 38 fights.

Liston fans can point out this was only his 8th fight. Marshall fans can say if it was 10, 12, or 15 rounds, Liston's questionable intangibles might have made him quit.

 

Here's a tip for you.
When you see these " " they are quotation marks ,they indicate that what is typed between them is a "quote".
The line you are referring to comes from box rec,and you've quoted it out of context ,do you get it now?atsch

Why do you continually make duplicate posts? And with the same spelling mistakes in the second one as the first?:huh

I'ts very bizarre.:readthre:

 

Liston fans can say their third fight was over 10rounds and not only did Liston not quit,Marshall didn't win a round!


"Sonny Liston, 203, St. Louis, parlayed a harder punch, a devastating body attack and a 24-pound weight advantage into an easy decision over Marty Marshall, 179, Detroit, in the 10-round main event of a fight card at the Gardens tonight. Both judges and referee Buck McTiernan scored the bout the same—the first round even and the next nine for Liston. Marshall spent most of his time retreating." - Associated Press


:yep:happy:hi:

 

Liston dominated. He did everything but bend the division over and introduce it to the gimp.

 

Liston went 2-2 in championship fights true, what if he had received the title shot he obviously deserved earlier ? It would have been him wiping the floor with the challengers that Patterson feasted on instead of Floyd
And Liston's two losses were to the consensus no1/2 all time in the division when he himself was past prime and lacking in ring time. So spurious arguments.


No one here is saying it detracts form his legacy.Actually continuing to fight and only losing by a split decision confounds those who glibly say he quit when the going got tough .
On one hand we have Liston saying his jaw was broken when he had his mouth open laughing at Marshall ,on the other we have Marshall saying it isn't so . No film= The jury is still out.

 

So after all the schooling over this article you still come up with this?

 

I agree whole wheatedly:good

 

I suppose this is why Clay/Ali, just about the most unconventional fighter around then , was such a prohibitive favourite to dethrone Sonny?
There was gathering opinion unconventionality was Liston's Achilles heel? :think
You learn something new every day.

 

A gathering opinon of about 4 people i bet.

 

We have Chok and Lab + Mendoza,who is the other one?

 

Harold Johnson-Marty Marshall has been on youtube. Harold ends Marty's career best winning streak via ten round decision at a time when Liston was among Marshall's victims in that stretch. It's also very obvious how Marty beat Sonny, regardless of whether Liston's jaw was broken.

Sonny was hitting Machen low because of Eddie's textbook high guard, which Liston kept trying to get underneath to avoid damaging his fists and wrists on Machen's elbows. I credit Eddie for forcing Sonny to foul him. I don't believe Liston was cheating on purpose, and in fact consider Machen to have been far the dirtier combatant in that one, deliberately hitting on the break to make Sonny lose his composure and roughing him up in a clinch by spinning him around.

With having watched Liston-Machen a few times, it's apparent to me that Sonny was bewildered by an opponent who clearly had no fear of him, and seemed uncertain of how to react after that spin move.

The extent to which Eddie's right was impaired for Liston becomes obvious in looking at Machen's knockout of Nino Valdes, a full count of the Cuban being produced by Eddie's right to the big man's body. Liston-Machen undoubtedly becomes a very different fight if Eddie's right is not impaired, but carrying the same potency which put and kept Nino down. Machen later used his fully recovered right to produce his final career knockout in ending the career of big and durable Duke Sabedong, and was clearly applying dangerous power from both sides in a few other impressive wins after Liston.

Very prescient are the description of Marshall's knockdown of Sonny in round five of their second match with a right, and repeated mentions of Liston having to reset himself. When Ali knocked Sonny down in Lewiston, Liston was lifting his left leg to follow, leaving all his weight on his rear right foot alone at the moment he got caught with that whiplash chin spinner. (Slow motion footage showing Sonny's feet in the frames leave no doubt that knockdown was legitimate, but this footage is usually edited by cropping Liston's feet out of the bottom of the picture to perpetuate the "controversy." Tex Maule was correct in stating it was a hard punch, but wrong in claiming the force of it lifted Sonny's left leg off the floor. Liston himself did that, but I don't blame Maule for missing it without having reviewed the footage. Tex had to meet a deadline by reporting what he thought he observed to the best of his ability. He'd have needed a review of the footage to know he was completely incorrect in writing that most of Sonny's weight was on his left foot when that cross connected.)

Eddie Machen was correct in saying he was the guy who could beat Sonny Liston. After Cassius Clay had been staggered across the ring by the right hand of Doug Jones in the opening round, then knocked silly by Henry Cooper's left hook knockdown, there was no indication he had the punch resistance or elusiveness to avoid getting hit and knocked out by Liston. Sonny's left was definitely injured for Patterson II and Clay I, and it was the main citation immediately used for Liston forfeiting the then biggest prize in sports on his stool for the first time since Willard likewise pulled a then unprecedented French Exit, but Sonny was not going to win that one even with two healthy guns. Machen's injured right, by contrast, was only mentioned dismissively in connection with Liston, when Eddie's pre and post Sonny career strongly suggests it was pivotal.

Sabedong was Machen's last bout before Liston lost the title later in February 1964, and Eddie's record betrays a faded competitive spirit with his five bout, two and a half year drought afterward. Clay/Ali had beaten him to the objective in Miami Beach, and Machen knew it would have been him with two good arms and Sonny's impaired left in a rematch.

Could Eddie Machen have been Sonny Liston's first challenger after Patterson? I think he knew his draw against Cleveland Williams in July 1962 cost Eddie that opportunity, and I suspect Machen's realization that he blew it after Sonny won the title on September 25 was a large factor in causing the suicidal behavior which got Eddie committed to Napa State Hospital in December. The Big Cat was an opponent he needed to go for broke in a knockout bid against to compensate for his nationally televised losses to Liston and Harold Johnson for getting that needed big payday title opportunity.