The Future of CUBA in the Pros, by Weightclasses. (List Inside) UPDATED/VIDEO

Kid Cubano · Mar 23, 2011

interesting, thanks

Bogotazo · Mar 23, 2011

I was hoping Rigondeaux would pick up on the negative reception of his performance

Shame this generation of Cubans don't have Miami support. .

robg · Mar 23, 2011

arve lie said: ↑

For the third time in a month Luis Ortiz is supposed to fight, every time the date is changed and no names (just TBA) mentioned.
Please give him an interesting name to fight !!!!!!
He is already WBC number 20.
Click to expand...

This is because there's a little bit of confusion (That's now been sorted out btw) with The Heavyweight Facyory and Dream Team.

robg · Mar 23, 2011

Maja back in action April 29th.

robg · Mar 23, 2011

nip102 said: ↑

The Cuban Conundrum
Wed 23-Mar-2011 14:21

Phillips Arena

By Steve Kim

Boxing attorney Leon Margules has perhaps the most unique viewpoint on this issue. Not only is he a resident of Miami but before becoming the president of Warriors Boxing, for nearly a decade he was the President of “Team Freedom,” which handled the first wave of Cuban defectors, including the likes of Joel Casamayor, Diosbelys Hurtado and Ramon Garbey. As it relates to the struggles of boxing in the 305, Margules states, "I don’t think it’s boxing; I think South Florida is a tough market for anything in general. It’s the reason that Los Angeles lost its NFL teams- it’s a superstar driven market with transients, where everybody is looking for the biggest thing in town and the Marlins don’t draw unless they win the World Series. The Heat didn’t draw till they brought the ‘Three Kings’ [Dwyane Wade, LeBron James and Chris Bosh] to town; the Dolphins don’t draw when they don’t win the Super Bowl or they’re in the playoffs. The ‘Canes don’t draw unless they’re undefeated or going to a major bowl game.

"And the Cubans don’t come out unless they got a superstar on their hands. There was some support for Hurtado. There was some support for Gamboa. There was some support for Casamayor but other than that, Cubans don’t draw either."

know."
Click to expand...

This paragraph is painfully true. The ticket sales for every single Boxing Match in South Florida has been horrible the past few years. From 2007-2011 from what I remember, the fight that sold the most tickets was Ed Paredes vs. Joey Hernandez 1.

Stevenson#1 · Mar 24, 2011

nip102 said: ↑

The Cuban Conundrum
Wed 23-Mar-2011 14:21

Phillips Arena

By Steve Kim

On Saturday night, WBA/IBF featherweight titlist Yuriorkis Gamboa faces Jorge Solis at the Boardwalk Hall in Atlantic City, New Jersey. This fight, which headlines the most recent installment of HBOs Boxing After Dark isnt taking place in the big room but at the Phillips Arena, which seats 3,000 patrons. The reason is simple- Top Rank, which is promoting this event, are realists. They know that for as talented as Gamboa is, like many other Cuban fighters, he doesnt sell an abundance of tickets.

Thats the Cuban conundrum. For all their natural ability, they simply dont resonate with the general populace in America.

"No question about it," said Bob Arum, who points out, "They cant even really draw with the Cuban population, so its a problem. But you gotta get guys who are very exciting, who dont fight stinkin like some of the Cubans do but fight like Gamboa, who is very, very exciting. And eventually, theyll pick up interest with all the boxing fans and then...y know, it is what it is. Its limited. Itll never be a [Manny] Pacquiao or that kind of thing but we can put him in a lot of fights where he makes really good money and we know what were dealing with there. Of course, theres a big money fight with JuanMa Lopez down the road."

This card will be a sell-out but not necessarily because of the presence of Gamboa. The undercard bout between Teon Kennedy and Jorge Diaz (who both hail from the local region) and a four-rounder with the Baltimore Ravens Tommy Zbikowski have sold a good number of tickets, according to Top Rank officials. The secret here is to place Gamboa with other boxers who can put asses in seats.

"100 percent correct," said Arum. "If we had him on a main event and we didnt have attractions underneath, then there would be nobody there. But we, unlike some of the other promoters weve seen, they dont have a guy whos an attraction; they dont surround him with attractions. Weve done that."

To a certain degree, at least to the live audience, Gamboa is a high-priced walk-out bout.

"We put the Kennedy-Diaz fight, that sold a sh*tload of tickets. Theres [Matt] Remillard, whos fighting Mikey Garcia, hes bringing a lot of people and Tommy Z, he caps it off. Theres a really, really big number of fans coming from the Baltimore area, including the newspaper (the Baltimore Sun). When have they ever covered a fight?" asked Arum, rhetorically. For many years, Arum stayed away from the Cubans but recently, he has dipped his toe into Havana with the likes of Gamboa and Guillermo Rigondeaux.

"And we also partnered up with Ahmet Oner on Odlanier Solis, because we thought there was an upside with these guys," added the veteran promoter, "but its very, very difficult. Its very difficult; lets be honest about it because theres a big Cuban population in Miami but theyre different kinds of Cubans. Theyre white Cubans that fled and these are black Cubans that were left behind and now have defected and the white Cubans got away from boxing and the only guy that ever drew with those Cubans in Miami years ago was [Alexis] Arguello. We did that fight [against Aaron Pryor] in the Orange Bowl."

Boxing attorney Leon Margules has perhaps the most unique viewpoint on this issue. Not only is he a resident of Miami but before becoming the president of Warriors Boxing, for nearly a decade he was the President of Team Freedom, which handled the first wave of Cuban defectors, including the likes of Joel Casamayor, Diosbelys Hurtado and Ramon Garbey. As it relates to the struggles of boxing in the 305, Margules states, "I dont think its boxing; I think South Florida is a tough market for anything in general. Its the reason that Los Angeles lost its NFL teams- its a superstar driven market with transients, where everybody is looking for the biggest thing in town and the Marlins dont draw unless they win the World Series. The Heat didnt draw till they brought the Three Kings [Dwyane Wade, LeBron James and Chris Bosh] to town; the Dolphins dont draw when they dont win the Super Bowl or theyre in the playoffs. The Canes dont draw unless theyre undefeated or going to a major bowl game.

"And the Cubans dont come out unless they got a superstar on their hands. There was some support for Hurtado. There was some support for Gamboa. There was some support for Casamayor but other than that, Cubans dont draw either."

Beyond that, there is also this issue; for the résumés and pedigrees many of these Cubans have, their styles dont necessarily translate into the professional ranks. In short, what worked so well boxing for medals- scoring points and then protecting the lead by running around the ring- works against their marketability as pros. Yes, while its effective, its often times not very entertaining. It can win you plenty of fights but it may not win you many fans.

This was certainly the case for Rigondeaux who put on a dreadfully dull performance on the Manny Pacquiao-Antonio Margarito undercard in Dallas in front of a worldwide audience this past November. He lost in winning a decision over Ricardo Cordoba. Arum said last week, "He certainly didnt help himself and were going to have to work with putting him on the Fox Sports Deportes shows, assuming he does OK in Ireland. Because if I went, for example, to HBO to sell him in a fight, I mean, I shot my mouth off when he was fighting in Dallas. Hes the next great thing and I was embarrassed. So I got no chance to sell Rigondeaux to HBO after that performance in Dallas."

This past weekend in Ireland (which is where Rigondeaux was exiled to by Top Rank), he emphatically stopped the overmatched Willie Not So Mighty Casey in one round. Rigondeaux is trained by the respected Ronnie Shields, who, as a young apprentice, came up under the watchful eye of George Benton (who believed in looking good tomorrow but just winning tonight). But todays business of boxing is a bit of a beauty contest. It helps to have a bit of style and flair with all that substance.

"Absolutely," said Shields. "Thats one of the things we talked about. We talked about at the beginning of this camp. Youve got to understand, this is only my third camp with him and the first fight I had him for two weeks. The second fight, I had eight weeks and after the showing against Cordoba, he didnt impress anybody. But I told him he was too good of a fighter to get out there and look the way he did in Dallas. That was just unacceptable and I told him, Look, man, in boxing, in order to make money in this sport, youve got to be a guy everybody wants to see. Thats hands down and I made that point to him and I said, Look, youve got to have a faster start. As strong as you are, you can knock anybody out in one or two rounds. Youve got to get out there and put punches together and just gotta get out there and do it. And he said, OK, Im going to do it. Thats what it takes; thats what Im going to do."

The need to be explosive and exciting is probably more heightened for Cubans. For one, they dont draw particularly well. If thats the case, unless youre aligned with the likes of Al Haymon, you can become persona non grata to the likes of HBO if you put on too many agony fights.

Shields also trains Erislandy Lara (who, after just 15 bouts under his belt, is already a bona fide contender at 154) and has passed along the same message to him. But he reasons that the transformation will take time. "See, people dont understand the transition these guys got to make," said Shields, who points out that Rigondeaux has only eight pro fights to his credit. "They have a system in Cuba and its a great amateur system but its all they know and to try to change them to being something else, its not going to happen overnight. It takes time but I think both of these guys got it now. I honestly do."

Margules and his company are staging this weeks edition of Friday Night Fights on ESPN2 from the Cosmopolitan in Las Vegas, which is co-headlined by Lara and fellow Cuban Yudel Jhonson. In the past, their predecessors have been plagued by a lack of discipline (you could call it the Full Refrigerator Syndrome) or simply couldnt make the full adjustment to the American lifestyle. Some were simply built to be amateurs. But Margules believes that the newer generation of Cubans will have more success in the paid ranks.

"I think this wave of Cubans are much better than the prior waves- and not necessarily in terms of one star because Joel Casamayor was certainly a great fighter- but in terms of the overall depth," he opined. "There are a lot of Cuban guys that might pan out; you never know."
Click to expand...

Good post . Thanks . Peace.
Good Post . Thanks . Peace

BigBone · Mar 24, 2011

"Outsiders'" live draw power is an excellent barometer of where boxing stands in the US right now, tells a lot about local fans desire to open their pocket and the job promoters do to pack arenas. And here's the sad truth: even the biggest promoters such as Bob Arum and DLH don't give a crap to invest money to create a loyal fanbase from scratch, as Pascal's promoter pointed out, in the US they just grab the TV and occasional site fee and don't give a **** about empty seats - and they whine about people not turning up? atsch

NONE of the current superstars became a draw because of their promoters did their job - Canelo sells because there's incredible buzz in Mexico and among Mexican Americans - Bob Arum simply uses the Puerto Rican's passion for the sport and giant home media support to sell out arenas, Top Rank & Golden Boy rip off audiences around Mexican and Puerto Rican festivities as these proud people will always pay around that time and Pacquiao himself became a draw due to passionate Filipinos and Latinos turned up following solid performances vs. the biggest Mexican stars - it had nothing to do with promoters building up a paying fanbase, they built up themselves.

Arum is disappointed because Gamboa's name doesn't draw big crowds? HOW ABOUT DOING YOUR ****ING JOB THEN AND PROMOTE THE FIGHT, MAYBE THEY WILL SHOW UP? DUH? I bet he'd be very proud of his 'job' if there were 2 million Cubans in the US willing to pack an entire football stadium, but that would still have nothing to do with promoting the event, they'd show up anyway.

Do American promoters think Romanian Lucian Bute just showed up in Canada and he was a sellout? That Armenian-German Arthur Abraham knocked some bum out and 10.000 bought a ticket for his next fight? That Ricky Hatton just had a bloody fight in Manchester and the locals became instant paying fans? - NO, their promoters did their job and invested in a lot of money to build up a paying fanbase. It is very sad that damn exciting talents such as Cuban Gamboa or Argentinean Maravilla can't produce thousands of fans after 2 KOs on HBO, but they did their part which is fighting, how about their promoter start doing theirs, which is making sure the crowds turn up?

How do you expect to drink from a well if you're reluctant to draw water from it?

Stevenson#1 · Mar 24, 2011

BigBone said: ↑

"Outsiders'" live draw power is an excellent barometer of where boxing stands in the US right now, tells a lot about local fans desire to open their pocket and the job promoters do to pack arenas. And here's the sad truth: even the biggest promoters such as Bob Arum and DLH don't give a crap to invest money to create a loyal fanbase from scratch, as Pascal's promoter pointed out, in the US they just grab the TV and occasional site fee and don't give a **** about empty seats - and they whine about people not turning up? atsch

NONE of the current superstars became a draw because of their promoters did their job - Canelo sells because there's incredible buzz in Mexico and among Mexican Americans - Bob Arum simply uses the Puerto Rican's passion for the sport and giant home media support to sell out arenas, Top Rank & Golden Boy rip off audiences around Mexican and Puerto Rican festivities as these proud people will always pay around that time and Pacquiao himself became a draw due to passionate Filipinos and Latinos turned up following solid performances vs. the biggest Mexican stars - it had nothing to do with promoters building up a paying fanbase, they built up themselves.

Arum is disappointed because Gamboa's name doesn't draw big crowds? HOW ABOUT DOING YOUR ****ING JOB THEN AND PROMOTE THE FIGHT, MAYBE THEY WILL SHOW UP? DUH? I bet he'd be very proud of his 'job' if there were 2 million Cubans in the US willing to pack an entire football stadium, but that would still have nothing to do with promoting the event, they'd show up anyway.

Do American promoters think Romanian Lucian Bute just showed up in Canada and he was a sellout? That Armenian-German Arthur Abraham knocked some bum out and 10.000 bought a ticket for his next fight? That Ricky Hatton just had a bloody fight in Manchester and the locals became instant paying fans? - NO, their promoters did their job and invested in a lot of money to build up a paying fanbase. It is very sad that damn exciting talents such as Cuban Gamboa or Argentinean Maravilla can't produce thousands of fans after 2 KOs on HBO, but they did their part which is fighting, how about their promoter start doing theirs, which is making sure the crowds turn up?

How do you expect to drink from a well if you're reluctant to draw water from it?
Click to expand...

Great Post , yes I also believe promoters should spend some money building up fanbases intead of being greedy and simplistic by using memorables dates , etc . Here in the UK they do a great job marketing their boxers , thats why when one of them goes to Vegas for a title fight you see hordes of Brits going there , with the cubans its a bit more difficult due to the language barrier , I think it would be easier to market them to the American public if they spoke at least a bit of English , but again I think this will change in the future once Cuba is free and prosperous again then our strongest fanbase will be inside the island . Peace .

arve lie · Mar 24, 2011

I am sure the quick-fix to get more people interested in the Fights/fighters is to let more fights be showed on national tv. That way people get to know the best fighters and its the best fighters who draw attention to the sport.
Boring fighters make people fall asleep.
Some fights on national tv and i am sure PPV sales would be much better after that
A sport not available on national tv is just a dying sport.

robg · Mar 24, 2011

I hope Yunier Dorticos' fight is televised tomorrow. He is quickly becoming one of my new favorites! If the Jhonson or Lara fights end early we might get to see it!

arve lie · Mar 25, 2011

ESPN2 friday
Lara,Jhonson,Dorticos,R Barthelemy and Pairol . ESPN use to show two fights on tv
Lara for sure Jhonson or Dorticos i guess.

arve lie · Mar 25, 2011

what the f....... Lara was sleepwalking for many rounds and got a DRAW
Jhonson and Dorticos won on k.o Pairol won on points

LaidOut · Mar 27, 2011

Gamboa with an easy stoppage win over Solis. Let's get Gamboa-JML soon!

arve lie · Mar 27, 2011

on april 29 talentet 18 years old Hairon Socarras in his second fight

garfios · Mar 27, 2011

El Maja! where he is fighting?

Log in or Sign up

The Future of CUBA in the Pros, by Weightclasses. (List Inside) UPDATED/VIDEO

Kid Cubano Boxing Junkie Full Member

Bogotazo Amateur Full Member

robg Active Member Full Member

robg Active Member Full Member

robg Active Member Full Member

Stevenson#1 Boxing Addict Full Member

BigBone Boxing Addict Full Member

Stevenson#1 Boxing Addict Full Member

arve lie Boxing Addict Full Member

robg Active Member Full Member

arve lie Boxing Addict Full Member

arve lie Boxing Addict Full Member

LaidOut Whaaaaat? Full Member

arve lie Boxing Addict Full Member

garfios Dark Lord Full Member

Log in or Sign up

Forums

The Future of CUBA in the Pros, by Weightclasses. (List Inside) ***UPDATED/VIDEO***

Kid Cubano Boxing Junkie Full Member

Bogotazo Amateur Full Member

robg Active Member Full Member

robg Active Member Full Member

robg Active Member Full Member

Stevenson#1 Boxing Addict Full Member

BigBone Boxing Addict Full Member

Stevenson#1 Boxing Addict Full Member

arve lie Boxing Addict Full Member

robg Active Member Full Member

arve lie Boxing Addict Full Member

arve lie Boxing Addict Full Member

LaidOut Whaaaaat? Full Member

arve lie Boxing Addict Full Member

garfios Dark Lord Full Member

The Future of CUBA in the Pros, by Weightclasses. (List Inside) UPDATED/VIDEO