The future of MMA-

If more african americans chooses MMA and not Football, basketball or boxing or other sports. The level of quality of MMA will be alot greater. Theres no doubt

 

First of all, we're not talking about which sport is more refined. Athleticism has nothing to do with maturity of the sport. In fact, your argument is even more **** if we consider it because the likes of combat systems used in MMA today is hundreds in some cases thousands of years more developed. Even though MMA in its entirety is young.

Second, you're evading the point. Are you saying that BJJ Judo, Wrestling etc world Champions and now MMA champions are lesser athletes than African American NFL players?
To respond to your irrelevant response: So what you're claiming is that if more youths other than of african american descent join MMA it won't be a lot better?

 

BJJ and Judo absolutely...if you know the history of the arts and how partly these two were conceived. Wrestling yes they are very athletic but less than 10% of world class wrestlers of the last 15 years have partcipated in MMA.

My last point is had more african american have pursued wrestling as a primary sport , there would have been more great black wrestlers than there are now.

February is black history month, and the matches of Lincoln and Douglass couldn’t be more significant to wrestling. But as we examine the accomplishments of African-American wrestlers, the question of relevance will inevitably be raised.

How do you measure the significance of former Iowa Hawkeye Simon Roberts becoming the first African-American NCAA champion in 1957. How do measure the feat of Bobby Douglas becoming the first African-American Olympic wrestler in 1964, becoming a World medalist in 1966 or that he became the first black coach to lead a college team (Arizona State) to an NCAA team title in 1988? Where does Lloyd Keaser rate in U.S. wrestling history after he became the first black World champion in 1973 or that Kenny Monday was the first black Olympic champ in 1988? Is it important that Jimmy Carr, the youngest wrestler to make an Olympic team, was black?

[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]The answer, quite simply, to these questions, is that each milestone was extremely significant to the U.S. wrestling community. The achievements of the aforementioned African-American wrestlers matter greatly to our sport.[/FONT]

[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]Consider Lee Kemp, an African American who may be the greatest American wrestler ever. Three NCAA titles, three World titles, and four undefeated international seasons broke new ground in the late seventies and early eighties. Only Jimmy Carter’s boycott in 1980 kept him from Olympic gold.[/FONT]

[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]But Kemp didn’t even start wrestling until the ninth grade. And as Kemp’s passion for wrestling grew, so did his curiosity. While flipping through old wrestling magazines in his high school coach’s office, Kemp learned about great wrestlers of the past. Dan Gable, Wade Schalles, and Wayne Wells were just a few of the wrestlers he found in those wrestling publications.[/FONT]

[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]Yet when there was a black wrestler in the magazine, Kemp took special notice. When Lloyd Keaser, James Tannehill or Carl Adams appeared, there was an immediate attraction.[/FONT]

[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]“Whenever I saw a black wrestler I would relate to that person,” said Kemp.

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I do notice that those black wrestlers gravitate toward me. I’m sensitive to that and I do pay attention to that.[/FONT]

 

1 - That's not what i meant...the novelty factor is irrelevant..When i'm talking about harming the sport..i'm referring to the talent pool. The likes of Leben and what not aren't doing any damage to the talent pool...They're just there...just like there's boring (but good) fighters , exciting fighters , technical ones , elite level , B level (gatekeeper material) , C level , "has beens"...There's a bit of everything already (pretty much like in boxing..it's the same in many sports.. not jsut combat sports)

I also disagree with the 2nd paragraph...The talent is not there yet ? Well..It depends how you look at it..If you're talking about americans only...then you're partially right... If you're talking about the global participants then no...You're wrong on that one too. You need to be more accurate with your point of view chimba...

2 - No...

3 - Good point...However i still fail to see why those superior fighters would all automatically have to be afro-americans ? Are you black yourself ? Or are you a white american who's used to seeing afro americans raping white american athletes in all disciplines ? Are you asian ? latino ? european maybe ?...Seriously , i'd be curious to know...

You see ,from my perspective , i've noticed a few things about white american males...I may be dead wrong , but , anyway , i'll say it..

It seems to me , that white americans have some sort of inferiority complex...maybe on a subconscious level. White american youths live in a culture in which black history month , positive discrimination..(or , in today's case) having a black prez is part of the norm. (or a half black , half white prez )...

USA invented the expression "white hope". ( Courtesy of Jack Dempsey ).

 

The most sensible post I have seen in this poxy thread.:good

Seriously this is getting boring.

 

So it only would be normal for a black or white american to automatically assume that all afro-americans are > whites.

Even though this assumption is flawed , it's irrelevant to the average american guy...(since , the white guy is used to seeing his ass getting owned by the athletically "superior" black guy...

and well, the black guy is used to being worshiped , defended by the media. You can see it all the time , just watch a basketball game..Black players on the court , whites , applauding...

I sometimes even wonder if there's not an even bigger agenda behind all this...Black youths have more respect for the likes of 50cent or in total admiration for Bryant..And yet , 95% have no clue who Neil deGrasse Tyson is ( now that's a real black role model )

 

If Tiger Woods would've been another white old fart...No one would give a flying **** about the guy's achievements. No media attention..No young black kids would be looking at the guy as an "example" for success...etc..

Anyone who says the contrary is only lying to himself. You don't even have to be white to realise this reality.

Just imagine for a second..Imagine if the likes of Nadal & Federer were both afro-americans.. it would be a total hysteria. Sure , the fans love these two...but just imagine how different the media would handle the case...Think about it for a second...I've seen articles talking about Tsonga (the black kid who looks like Muhammad Ali's twin brother ) , as if he was the "hope" of the sport...That's how desperate the white media is for another huge black prodigee... (even though the guy only speaks french)..

I wonder how it feels for the white american to witness a 90% black dominated sport (basketball) , with not a single elite to represent them ? Afterall , it's impossible to count the likes of Ginobili , Gasol , Nash ,Nowitzki etc..(in other words "foreigners" ) , that would be too easy ...none of them are americans. and yet , when you think of whites who are worth a **** in the nba...you're forced to admit that they're all imported...& not born and bred in america. (with a few rare exceptions , and i'm of course not counting the likes of Bird or Stockton since they're retired)

In boxing...same thing...we're in 2009..and white americans are still waiting for their "white hope"...He's nowhere to be seen...Again , you can't count the likes of Bute , Calzaghes, Klitschko etc...(eastern euros or other , imported white boxers)...None of them are here to represent white america. (mentioning Pavlik would almost be insulting...the guy is the definition of white hope)

And you can't even blame it on the "era" since all eras had their ups and downs. Back in the 60's..half of the participants were banned from fighting with the pros.. americans used to have the quasi-entire monopoly of the sport and they would label their champs as "world" champions. (even though their records dictated a 98% american opposition). Tyson...another media creation...fantastic athlete but who (like Golota) , was a mental midget...

Americans are champions when it comes to create legends and hype...Take Riddick Bowe ...one dimensional at best..and yet he was dominating his era...If it wasn't for Golota's mental issues..Riddick would've been toast by this overrated moron. Foreman...At 44 or 45...KOED the overrated Moorer...(as overrated as Pavlik or maybe even more..)

All eras had their ups and downs..of course it's easier to **** on today's era though..especially because ever since the boxing scene became (finally) "international"...americans never had the opportunity to have the monopoly of the sport like they used to. So they have to find excuses..

the final refuge ? The NFL of course...The NFL aka...america's last bastillion..."the" sport where they don't have do deal against a world competition. The superbowl alone is part of america's culture now..(though half just watch it for the ****ing commercials )...

The NFL is constituated of several types of athletes.. Average ones , top ones , smart ones ,overrated ones & huge lard asses with amazing strengh & poor cardio... All without exception are overpaid (though no one will ever be as overpaid as Tiger Woods ).

Money doesn't = top athletes...it's a false assumption and yet , there's many who are paid millions.. It's almost in some way equal to an argumentum ad crumenam.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_crumenam

ex: If you’re so smart, why aren’t you rich?

We could do a little variation...(like most boxing fans often say)...
"if they had any talent...they'd go into boxing"
(which is utterly ridiculous since 95% of mma participants aren't boxing rejects , and happen to have a greco-wrestling or judo or bjj background..it only seems logical to follow the mma route )

The fact that the NFL was brought up by the TS...demonstrates perfectly how one dimensional his point of view is. and it also reflects how little he knows about the sport and how little he takes into consideration...( stamina , chin , workrate , endurance , determination , intelligence , upsets , strength , cuts ...expecting the unexpected etc..)

At least that's my take on it...

Who knows...maybe TS is right...But don't have high expecations though...cause unlike boxing...we didn't have to wait + 50 or 80 years to have an international scene.... You already have the brazilians & other latinos...euros , eastern euros..asians....maybe in a distant future it'll be them against afro-americans (and not a single white american to represent..pretty much like in boxing today)...Maybe it'll be the case ? (though i sincerly doubt it since the greco roman scene is filled with white american participants)...but , you never know...

But please...never globalise all whites in the same basket. Or to put it bluntly don't take the case of white american athletes for a universal generality. It ain't happening...

And i'll go as far as to say that americans are even lucky that no one gives a **** about the NFL , the superbowl wouldn't always end up in american hands if it wasn't for the secluded participation of this sport. Keep enjoying it while you can though.

but i'm starting to sound like an ******* and a total hypocrite too...because in reality , it's not like all white american athletes are no hopers...there's plenty of impressive white american athletes too..One thing is for sure though , all these decades of seeing white american bred cans getting owned in boxing , didn't help..boxing never was the white american boy's forte.

 

Of course its hurting the sport to have guys like the Kimbos of the worlds and a Stoljnik fighting Velazquez.. It may make it popular at the moment but if you have a street brawler Kimbo as a main event, what does that say??

The sport is at a young age and needs all the help it can get in promoting quality product. This is why alot of boxing enthusiasts bash the sport. And I know some people still doesnt treat it seriously but watches it to see someones head gets bashed in.

Boxing can have its share of circus but it has had a 100 years of history of great fighters and great fights and even then it still gets bashed periodically.

The third point is simple and I dont want to get into studies, lets just presume that there is no difference between the races (Asians, Blacks, Caucasians) physiology, which is absurd but for the sake of argument lets say that we are all the same and athletic abilities were distributed randomly.

Say there is a pool of 300 people 100 each for each race. All 300 have the same athletic abilities, same intelligence, same work ethic.

Lets assume that the 90 of the blacks went into football because this is where the money is. Only 10 went into MMA.

Heres my point, had these 90 black athletes chose MMA as well instead of Football, would MMA be better of be worse off??

This has been the point all along, Im Filipino, I can look at this objectively for the mere fact that I watch the NFL and I say, damn this sport requires alot of speed and power..hmmm traits that certainly any aspiring MMA fighter wouldnt want. Gee I wonder if these guys playing defense, running the ball (which are mostly blacks, unless Im colorblind) got into MMA or Martial arts. I could care less about Whites vs. Blacks I just see this **** and base my conclusions on what I see.

 

I agree with most of your points, nothing wrong with it. I would have to say though that if you are broke, youre not too smart. Unless you live in a parallel world where they still barter.

I think whenever you are the visible minority in any sport, you are bound to get alot of attention, this goes both ways.

 

I dont care if ALL of the black athletes went into MMA, MMA still wouldn't have better "quality" of athletes. It would have MORE good athletes.

If you wanna get into studies, there are plenty of studies to suggest many things about races and we can go back and forth which is more important for certain sports.

As for "If you're not rich you're not so smart" bull****. Here's a fun fact for you, one of the smartest man(2nd highest IQ i think) on earth is a bouncer. Now how about that ****. (Man, it must suck living in the world where you perceive everyone as pretty much clinically ******ed...)

 

Sure quality will get better. Better talent brings upon competition and better competition breeds better fighters.

Thats not what I said, I said people who are broke are not smart. No you dont have to be rich. Just dont be perpetually broke and claim you are one smart individual. Now if you are a mensa but have mental problems, Id understand if youre broke

 

Athletes does not equal fighters. Try again.

 

I wouldn't even agree with that. Its much more simple than that (and God Chimba and company are simple people, its not a surprise they don't understand.)

The fact is being 'an athlete' is not a generalized thing; the athleticism needed to be a basketball player or a wrestler are completely different. Its really really simple.