The Garcia Haney ref

Come on man, stay with me on this. Lets not get side tracked lol. For the record, I never said Canelo beat Floyd. I never even said the draw card was reasonable. I just saw it as a lot closer than most did, but still a clear Floyd win.

 

At least we agree on the point deduction.

 

It was a dumb move on Ryan's part, yes. You said you don't take issue with it, but you also don't agree with it. So you would have preferred a warning there. I see the straight away point deduction as justified due to how blatant of a foul it was, and how hard the shot was. If it was just a light tap, then I could see a warning being more appropriate.

 

It was a clear (and dumb) foul by Ryan though. The ref in my view was well justified to deduct a point. But again, I respect where you're coming from ellerbe and don't think you're wrong for feeling that way.

 

That's the crux of the issue that I'm trying to get to the bottom of. Because many posters here do not like clinching (in general) or holding and I think given that, many do not consider it a legitimate defensive act (which I would disagree, it is) and that to me is why I think that his ability to clinch and hang on negated those from being an KD. But it didn't stop me from giving Ryan an additional point in those rounds. Due to the level of dominance, and the fact that punches were landed there and Haney was clearly affected by them. So regardless of our views of the knockdowns, the more important question is how should those rounds be scored.

I don't agree that Haney deserved a point deduction for excessive holding. Generally, I'm against giving point deductions for defensive survival actions. Haney showed heart and resilgency to stay on his feet and survive. You can always take away an additional point from the fighter who lost the round on your own, for how dominant a round was, as I did in Rounds 7 and 10, or for fouling that the ref didn't in your mind penalize enough, without having to object to the ruling itself. The point deduction for Ryan imho was clear as it was a blatant egregious foul in my estimation. While Haney's holding was not blatant fouling, it was simply his way of trying to hang in there and survive, which is allowed. Further, while you criticize Haney for holding, the ref also warned Garcia for holding as well, for putting Haney in a headlock. So I disagree with on this, it would have been an overreach in my estimation for the ref to deduct a point for Haney's holding. A warning, a talking to, sure. But not a point deduction. On the other hand, Ryan deserved the point deduction for clearly punching in the clinch.

Round 7 was a crazy crazy round, but the only clear foul in that round was Ryan's punch in the clinch, which was a impactful shot. None of the other fouls were as clear as that, so it made sense, to me at least, that it resulted in a point deduction, and the other more borderline debatable stuff wasn't.

My argument isn't that the ref was perfect, but that the ref had a very difficult assignment. With all the holding, etc, and I've conclude that "overall" he did a good job. Not that he was perfect, not that you can't disagree with some of his decisions.

For example, would it have been fair to rule EVERY one of those possible KDs all KDs? Weren't there like 4 times that the ref could have ruled additional knockdowns? Some of those were more borderline than others, no?

And keep in mind, that although I had no problem with him not ruling those KDs, I still "noted" them, how borderline they were and considered those into my scoring. How did you score rounds 7, 10 and 11 by the way?

I scored the 7th round 9-7, and I scored the 10th 10-7. Which is presumably the same score you would have if you ruled one of those non-KDs in each of those rounds a KD. So it's not like I ignored what happened there in my scoring. I gave Ryan an extra point due to how dominant he was, and due to those additional borderline knockdowns. I just didn't take direct issue with the ref not ruling those a KDs. I thought those were tough decisions for any ref to make due to the fact that Haney managed to clinch and hang on before going down.