The Gods of War

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Stonehands89, Dec 16, 2009.


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  1. GPater11093

    GPater11093 Barry Full Member

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    excellant read SH really enjoyed it love the way you write things, can imagine sitting in the corner of a gym with some battle hardened trainer telling me about Charley Burley in a smoky New York gym
     
    GPater11093, Dec 21, 2009
    GPater11093, Dec 21, 2009
    #16
  2. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    That article is a dream come true for me. Thank you.

    I like that you open with the Ray story. It's been questioned as to it's legitimacy, but as you point out it was widely witnessed. It also has good pedigree in journeying down to us. Your cornerstones are the right ones.

    Perhaps a mention of the Sugar duck would have bene warranted? I know it's hard to pin down but the details are out there - I think it speaks volumes the type of sums Sugar knocked back to fight Burley compared to the type of figures he took matched fighters for in the following years. Also, I think a word on Marshall and Charles might have been wisdom? Obviously you are in trouble for space, but those losses are troubling. Not a fighter in history could have beaten Marshall one-handed, but I do think that is worth saying.

    Probably my favourite article on the internet. Great job.
     
    McGrain, Dec 21, 2009
    McGrain, Dec 21, 2009
    #17
  3. Stonehands89

    Stonehands89 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    That's some high praise. If you stamp an article on Burley, it's a gold one, so thanks.

    A word on your (fair) critiques. I did mention Robinson's allergy. I placed it after the statement about how he ran out on Cocoa Kid. I didn't get into the purses and all that but succinctly discussed something that I think is a bit more damning, actually.

    As for mentioning the Marshall loss; well, Burley had worse losses than that one. He had a few off days.

    Discussing these or even mentioning all of them would have detracted from the purpose and especially the flow of the article.

    There are nine more of these things and I didn't want to make them a regurgitation of factoids. Those have been done. I appreciate the articles by Cox et. al, but I'm doing something different. What I'm trying to do is no less demanding in terms of research, but it is different. These things are crafted.

    These ten articles are attempts to make a case through a story or through taking one or a few fitting fights, researching them, and presenting them as examples of why this or that fighter was great. However, in the back of my head is a greater objective; and that is to invite non-boxing fans who appreciate stories/good writing, to use that appreciation as a bridge to appreciate the sweet science of bruising.

    PS/
    Someone left a comment at the bottom wondering if I "forgot" the Charles fights. Ezzard Charles was bigger than Burley, but was also without a doubt, the foil for Burley. No shame there... but wouldn't those bouts be better situated in an article about Ezzard Charles...? And that's precisely where they are.
     
    Stonehands89, Dec 21, 2009
    Stonehands89, Dec 21, 2009
    #18
  4. Sweet Pea

    Sweet Pea Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    Fantastic article, as always from ESB's best writer.
     
    Sweet Pea, Dec 21, 2009
    Sweet Pea, Dec 21, 2009
    #19
  5. aj415

    aj415 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    SH, that was an Informative and excellent read thank you very much for it.

    In essence are you categories boiling down to essentially the following?

    1. Who you fought
    2. How you fought
    3. How long you fought for
    4. How much you won

    Then

    5. How well you could take a punch (?)
    6. How you performed against bigger, larger foes
    7. Who you defined yourself to be through your actions

    Is that about the gist of it?
     
    aj415, Dec 21, 2009
    aj415, Dec 21, 2009
    #20
  6. Stonehands89

    Stonehands89 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    You'll want to read the first article in the series for information on that. The criteria are fairly well-defined, although we could all go around forever on what the scores look like for a given fighter.
     
    Stonehands89, Dec 21, 2009
    Stonehands89, Dec 21, 2009
    #21
  7. john garfield

    john garfield Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Any guy that can multi-task like you, is an ATG for me, S.
     
    john garfield, Dec 21, 2009
    john garfield, Dec 21, 2009
    #22
  8. aj415

    aj415 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Yessir did so. Might have been just me.. just wasn't completely clear on them.

    Wanted to follow through on the communication process, of making sure your message of the criteria was what I was getting. (Hence briefly summing up each one from the article's definition in my words)
     
    aj415, Dec 21, 2009
    aj415, Dec 21, 2009
    #23
  9. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Yeah, that's fair.

    What was your scorecard for Holman Williams like?
     
    McGrain, Dec 21, 2009
    McGrain, Dec 21, 2009
    #24
  10. GPater11093

    GPater11093 Barry Full Member

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    SH did you actually see Burley fight?
     
    GPater11093, Dec 21, 2009
    GPater11093, Dec 21, 2009
    #25
  11. PetethePrince

    PetethePrince Slick & Redheaded Full Member

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    High Praise Stonehands. Can't wait to see the rest.
     
    PetethePrince, Dec 21, 2009
    PetethePrince, Dec 21, 2009
    #26
  12. brando18b4h

    brando18b4h Active Member Full Member

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    I cant wait, thanks for your effort.
     
    brando18b4h, Dec 21, 2009
    brando18b4h, Dec 21, 2009
    #27
  13. Stonehands89

    Stonehands89 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Okay, got it. Summing up the categories risks leaving out key qualities within them. I summed up the criteria about as much as they can be summed up without rendering them totally vacuous.

    I have to admit that the definitions are a bit .... spongy. For example, Longevity isn't simply how long you fought for. It could also mean how often you fought in a given span of time... though anything less than 50 means and must mean a low score. Apologies to great fighters like Ray Leonard and Pernell Whitaker.
     
    Stonehands89, Dec 21, 2009
    Stonehands89, Dec 21, 2009
    #28
  14. Stonehands89

    Stonehands89 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Haha! I'm just an old soul, my man. Talk to the Wizard of Ouch -John Garfield... he probably had biscotti with him on 42nd street.

    Charley retired when my mother was 3.
     
    Stonehands89, Dec 21, 2009
    Stonehands89, Dec 21, 2009
    #29
  15. Stonehands89

    Stonehands89 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Stonehands89, Dec 21, 2009
    Stonehands89, Dec 21, 2009
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