The Gods of War

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Stonehands89, Dec 16, 2009.


  1. Stonehands89

    Stonehands89 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Langford? I"m afraid that Langford's prime was before 1920, so he isn't included.

    A major critique I have with so many of the typical rankings is that they include boxing before the Walker Law went into effect and legalized it, organized it, and modernized it. Gans, Fitzsimmon's, and Langford's era was inherently different from the modern era. Throwing them altogether just confuses things.

    Someday, it would be a good idea to do "The Gods of War II: The Greatest Boxers of the Pioneer Era."
     
  2. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Gotcha.

    They were the same sports with the same goals, though.
     
  3. Stonehands89

    Stonehands89 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Basketball and golf have the same goals too, my friend... "put the ball in the hole."

    Boxing 25 rounds with no neutral corner rule and no judges is essentially a different sport.

    Perhaps the third installment could be "The Gods of War III: The Greatest Boxers of the Bare Knuckle Era."
     
  4. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Yeah, I agree with you, but with golf and most other sports advances in equipment and training are what has made the sports into "different" sports". In boxing, whether it be in 1900 or 2000, it is what is inside the fighters that defines the sport. Rule changes, evolution in equipment, they are as incidental as it is possible for them to be.

    Certainly Sam Langford has more in common with Manny Pacquiao than Audley Harrison does.
     
  5. Chaney

    Chaney Mystery and Imagination Full Member

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    What a beautifully written article, Stonehands.

    There were tears in my eyes as I read it.
     
  6. Stonehands89

    Stonehands89 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    If I were to box you for 15 rounds, there would be differences in how I trained and how I fought than if I boxed you for 25 rounds. You may beat me over 15 but my endurance may kick in to allow me to beat you over 25. Throw in the wrestling allowances and it gets even more complicated....

    These things matter, which is why guys like Duo are so adamant about 15 rounds as opposed to 12... many decisions would go the other way had 12 been 15. Jack Johnson would have lost many more decisions today than he did back then because of his clutching and stalling techniques...
     
  7. Stonehands89

    Stonehands89 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    That's what I'm going for. The story of Ezzard is a story of dignity and greatness. It is very easy to make such a story hokie or cheesy, so, I am happy to know that it works.

    I'm trying to project a factual account that reads like a story, and that reflects the personality -the presence if you will- of the man and fighter.
    I won't tell you how long each one of these freakin things took.
     
  8. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Yeah, that's unquestionably true. Of course I would also train differently to fight you over 12 than 15 and extra endurnace will also play a role for a 12 round fighter fighting over this longer distance.

    Also, Sam Langford never fought over 25 rounds. He fought over 20 a couple of times, but was more likely to be found fighting over 6 or 10 or 12.

    You'd say wrestling, I'd say infighting.

    Things are also rendered different by new rules concerning cuts and rules about referees stopping fights - probably the single biggest differnce in boxing since day 0. The best example is Lewis's stoppage against McCall. Neither Ali or Holmes would have been stopped. Every rules change makes a difference to any sport - in boxing least of all though. Regardless, I don't see the Walker law as the neat cut-off that you do.
     
  9. Chaney

    Chaney Mystery and Imagination Full Member

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    I can see that each is a labour of love. But it doesn't read like you are showing off by cramming in every fact you could find...you are taking all the source material and distilling it into these short pieces that flow beautifully.

    I think you are really capturing some of the essence of each fighter. I think you are doing these great men proud.
     
  10. Stonehands89

    Stonehands89 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I don't see it as a neat cut-off, not even a little. It's just the best that I could come up, knowing what I know. Comparing Bob Fitzsimmons with Ezzard Charles "as if" just doesn't make sense to me. Comparing Bob Fitzsimmons to Joe Gans does. Comparing Ezzard Charles to Bob Foster does.
     
  11. PetethePrince

    PetethePrince Slick & Redheaded Full Member

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    Oh man Stoney that was a great read. I actually teared up during the end. Great piece...
     
  12. dpw417

    dpw417 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Extraordinary. I have not read better work. The individual stories bring these greats back to life. These are "The Gods of War", and what a rich history they have. SH, this is what makes me a fan of the history of boxing...and you are capturing the essense of it.
    Fine job!
     
  13. Stonehands89

    Stonehands89 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Thanks fellas.
     
  14. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล Full Member

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    The plaudits thus far are not gushing faux-appreciative comments.

    That was genuinely moving and engaging . The best article so far in my opinion, and such a deserving fighter too.
     
  15. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    In a sense, it is difficult, but it is also difficult to compare Paulie Malinaggi to Mike Tyson, and yet we insist upon it. In another sense it is reasonably easy to compare Bob to Ezzard by way of comparing their achievments and their wins and their losses. Interesting parallels, I think, given the identity of each man's first ATG victim.

    Regardless, there are about 20 years between Fitzsimmons and Langford turning pro and there was a huge amount of gloved boxing in between them.