The Golovkin-Martirosyan Match Serves As An Excellent & Revelatory Proxy Measuring Stick.

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by CST80, Apr 25, 2018.


  1. CST80

    CST80 De Omnibus Dubitandum Staff Member

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    This is another quick off the cuff impromptu stream of consciousness rant.....

    Not long ago, in a land not very far away, lived a legion of much ballyhooed fabled monsters that were being avoided like the bubonic plague, the land of the Light Middleweights, where the bigger, stronger, taller, heavier handed, equally skilled Middleweights feared to tread, they dreaded it deeply. As a matter of fact they were practically mortified. The terrifying inhabitants were as slick as ****d up seals, and as fast as turbo charged gazelles, and the lumbering addled brained ogres at Middleweight who move about as fast as constipated hippopotamuses, were no match at all. Well.... at least in theory, but sadly not many of these lions wanted to make the trip up north to prove it themselves. Well on May 5th 2018, we get to see that theory put to a test. Kind of... by proxy...

    Vanes "The Nightmare" Martirosyan hasn't just tangled with one but three of these highly touted supposed stylistic nightmares for Golovkin, and he didn't lose convincingly to a one. So if Erislandy Lara, Demetrius "Boo Boo" Andrade and Jermell Charlo are so untouchable and being avoided at all costs, one should assume that the guy who gave all three of them absolute hell and arguably beat or drew with them, would be a good barometer to measure Golovkin's overall worth with.

    Vanes fought on even terms not once, but twice against Erislandy Lara, their first match ended due to a clash of heads, that left Vanes' eyebrow gruesomely split wide open, it was rightfully scored a draw after 9 rounds of action. It was the very definition of a tit for tat tactical match, Vanes more than held his own, negating every adjustment Lara made with one of his own. They rematched in May of 2016, and one could argue that the second played out in a similar fashion as the first, the judges scorecards are a little wider than they should have been, the majority of Lara fans only had it 115-112 on the RBR on here, and when you take into consideration that that idiot Vic Drakulich docked poor Vanes a point for a low blow that was beyond unintentional in a round Vanes was doing fairly good in, that point somewhat threw off the entire flow of the rest of the match, making Vanes more cautious for the rest of the 11th and 12th. Would he have fought more intelligently and won had that point not been taken? Probably not, but a draw could have definitely been in the cards. Then when you take into consideration most of the rounds that Lara won and Vanes lost, were basically 55-45 type affairs, the reality is, these two are the definition of evenly matched.

    The loss on Vanes' record to Jermell Charlo isn't what I'd a call highway robbery, the fight was close, Pinoy and I scored it for Vanes by a point, IB scored it a draw, did you notice, none of us actually scored it for Jermell? A SD loss wouldn't have been all that egregious, a split or majority draw would have been acceptable, but of course it was scored fairly wide for the undefeated A-side money fighter. People like to talk up the post-Vanes Jermell and crow about how vastly improved a fighter he is, but is he? Let's take a closer look, he beat John Jackson, Erickson Lubin and Charles Hatley. The violently KO'd cold by Lee glass jawed Jackson was schooling him up until he got sparked out, but that's what he was brought in for wasn't it? Everyone remembers the KO, but forgot the match leading up to it, which was one sided in Jackson's favor. As far as Hatley goes, who cares, the guy was KO'd in 1 by Lanardo Tyner, whose best win was an ancient Mundine who was coming off of being beaten down and dominated by Joshua Clottey. Hatley was brought in to lose by KO, and lose by KO he did. Lubin, it was far too soon for such a step up in class, and who knew, he had a glass mandible as well. None of these guys are world beaters. Jermell is still the same guy that fought Vanes, no better, no worse. So you can't use the, oh... but Jermell was unseasoned argument here. Stylistically Vanes, like with Lara, would always be an issue for Jermello.

    Now onto the clearest loss of Vanes' career, to Andrade, and that was via a non controversial SD, because it could have gone either way as well. Since I scored it 114-113 for Boo Boo, I personally don't think Vanes was robbed, but its the closest anyone has come to beating Andrade yet, especially when you throw in the early knockdown Vanes scored. Like with Lara and Jermell, each and every round, especially in the first half were close and could have been scored in either direction, Andrade seemed to take control midway through with Vanes nicking a round or two late. Now remember, this was the prime beastly version of Boo Boo that everyone in the vicinity of Light Middleweight was supposedly terrified of sharing the ring with, well Vanes took him to the brink, like he did Charlo and Lara. Vanes then went on to dominate Willie Nelson in a similar fashion as Boo Boo softening him up in the process, and yeah I know, Andrade stopped Willie and Vanes didn't, yes... but, Vanes' match was a 10 rounder, Andrade stopped Willie in the 12th. Andrade is better than Vanes, but only slightly, by the thinnest of butt whiskers.

    Okay, onto the 800 pound elephant in the room.....

    Vanes hasn't stepped in the ring for 2 years, so that clearly should be taken into consideration here, but.... its not like he stayed on the sidelines scarfing down cheeseburgers and fries gorging himself all the way up to 210 pound Heavyweights like those two pre-Canelo repulsive gluttonous disgraces Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. and James Kirkland either, Vanes has clearly been keeping himself in great shape and is a well known gymrat constantly sparring and training out of the Glendale Boxing Club in his hometown. So he'll be sharp and ready to rumble, and its not like other guys who've had 1-2 year layoffs haven't gotten right back in the ring and took guys to the brink, after all.... look what Wlad almost did to Joshua after a year and a half layoff, but unlike Wlad, Vanes isn't in his 40's and had to deal with a ton of injuries along with personal and professional strife to bog his mind and body down with. If anything this may be a fresher, sharper, more motivated and rejuvenated Vanes, who quite frankly is fighting at his proper weight, Vanes isn't a tiny guy, he's got 1, maybe 2 inches of a height advantage over GGG, depending on what stats you're reading, and the same reach. Vanes is a big Light Middleweight, that could have fought at 160 his whole career. Also if Brook could hang for 5 rounds, who has a decent chin, then so can Vanes, who probably has a better chin than almost anyone GGG has faced. He was down against Roman and Ouma, but I've seen both of those matches and they were flash knockdowns, in fact he kipped up HBK style after Ouma dropped him with a hook in the 9th, he wasn't even close to being hurt by either.

    So if we're to believe that Lara, Charlo, Andrade and by association Hurd, Trout and the Evil Twin, who are at a similar level, could hang with and possibly beat Gennady Golovkin, then shouldn't that same courtesy apply to a guy who should have a win over one of them, and arguably draws against the other two? Vanes is every bit their equal, he's smart, tactical, defensively fairly sound, deceptively slick and an all around solid fighter, who's never decisively been outclassed in any match he's participated in. And remember, this is a fresh as a daisy Vanes, who probably needed a rest, fighting an old, decrepit shell of Gennady Golovkin, one that struggled with a fighter in Canelo Alvarez, who with all due respect, performed just as well, maybe even slightly less impressively than Vanes did against Lara.

    If anyone has ever wanted to see how well GGG would perform against those guys, Vanes is the proverbial measuring stick. So when and if Gennady Golovkin beats Vanes Martirosyan, I want all of the people who said GGG was ducking Lara, Canelo, Andrade, the Charlo's, Hurd, Trout etc. to give the man his props if he defeats the man who is every bit as good and close to evenly matched with the whole lot of them. He's for all intents and purposes, their equal, so treat him like it.


    Poor GGG, if many a boxing sage and prophet are to be believed.....

    He doesn't know what kind of nightmare he's gotten himself to.:confused:
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  2. uppercut_to_the_body

    uppercut_to_the_body Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Disagree. Vanes is being paid to take a dive. Watch the head to heads both fighters hugging and shaking hands like they have some sort of agreement.
     
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  3. Robney

    Robney ᴻᴼ ᴸᴼᴻᴳᴲᴿ ᴲ۷ᴵᴸ Full Member

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    It's not that 2 years off that bothers me the most though. it's the idea that although he's at 154 top level, and showed that, he's the one that always got the short end of the stick and therefore isn't held in as high regard as the guys on the exact same level.

    He's kinda like 2012 to early 2013 Campillo, who clearly had beaten both Shumenov and Cloud but got robbed against both. Then Hopkins when beats them and oooohhh he's so great (it was quite a feat for a 167 year old), while Campillo who actually did the same was labelled a gatekeeper instead. Results on paper often matter more as what actually happened inside the ring.
     
  4. PH|LLA

    PH|LLA VIP Member Full Member

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    Speed and movement (combined with enough pop to keep someone honest) are what troubles Golovkin and Vanes has neither.
     
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  5. CST80

    CST80 De Omnibus Dubitandum Staff Member

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    Exactamundo, my Dutch friend.:deal: Spot on!
     
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  6. CST80

    CST80 De Omnibus Dubitandum Staff Member

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    Then why did the slow footed feather fisted Vanes give such issues to Lara, Andrade and Charlo, yet we're supposed to believe that the technically far superior GGG wouldn't? I'm suggesting Vanes is a barometer as to how well GGG would hang with guys like him, you know all the people he beat or almost beat, but didn't get the credit for.
     
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  7. minemax

    minemax Boxing Addict Full Member

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    This fight will end either:
    a) Golovkin stops Martirosyan;
    b) Martirosyan retires on the stool.

    Yes, only those two options.
     
  8. Badbot

    Badbot I Am An Actual Pro. Full Member

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    And then Campillo ran into Kovalev.
    The likely scenario is that Golovkin is Martirosyan's "Kovalev".
     
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  9. dinovelvet

    dinovelvet Antifanboi Full Member

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    His analogy isn't really comparable. Try Campilio moving up to fight 2013 Huck or Lebadev for a more fitting comparison.
     
  10. anjawnaymiz

    anjawnaymiz Can we get Ivan Dychko some momentum Full Member

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    its a **** fight

    ggg is getting on now should only be in with top fighters, he needs to stop picking on these smaller men

    I reckon if he'd stepped up to super middle ward would have beat him
     
  11. TheyDontBoxNoMore7

    TheyDontBoxNoMore7 Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    Vanes will give Golovkin problems but it’s only due to the fact that G is very flawed. The handspeed difference will be very apparent early on but Vanes does know that you have to stand and fight Golovkin who will just shell up or move backwards in that scenario. He doesn’t exchange (Mexican Style) and he’s not a counter puncher. Vanes will get his moral victory.

    There’s no need to try to pump up Vanes. Any guy with decent handspeed and who isn’t a cab driver can do damage against Triple. This is just the reality of the situation. A shot Ouma did a very good job. Willie No Power Club fighter Monroe did a decent job. So did Dominic Wade at certain points.

    Golovkin is not a true elite in any respect. His skills would not translate in higher weight classes. If you took away his power, he would be a punching bag. If he actually fought people instead of waiting until he’s 35, he’d alread be a shot fighter like Prodnikov.
     
  12. Badbot

    Badbot I Am An Actual Pro. Full Member

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    Well, 154 to 160 is not that big of a move. And Vanes was a big guy at 154.
     
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  13. IsaL

    IsaL VIP Member Full Member

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    Zero real MW experience
    Two years of inactivity
    4 weeks to prepare for the fight
    Psychological deficiency of being able to beat the best
    Styles make fights
     
  14. IsaL

    IsaL VIP Member Full Member

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    Zero real experience hitting MWs let alone a career MW
    Zero real experience being hit by MWs
     
  15. PaddyGarcia

    PaddyGarcia Trivial Annoyance Gold Medalist Full Member

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    Some real #salt in this thread right now but yes the fight is rubbish. Spike isn't any good either but at least he was a 160 fighter I guess. Although he did actually reject it, so...