The Great Heavyweight Debate: Muhammad Ali vs. Joe Louis - Who's the HW GOAT?

I'm going with Ali. This is a case of quality triumphing over quantity, in my opinion. Both of them beat about as many ranked men and Heavyweight champions as the other, so they're equal in terms of depth. Louis obviously had 25 defenses and an 11 year long reign, which is remarkable, Ali never managed to quite do that.

That said, Ali just beat the superior fighters. Frazier, Foreman and Liston are all superior to anyone Louis ever managed to defeat. Louis' best wins are over Schmeling and Walcott, both of whom are in the top 20 ATG Heavyweights range, give or take. But same applies to Patterson and Norton. You could very well argue that Louis' best win would be Ali's 4th or 5th best win. And the rest of Ali's resume just consists of overall better names than Louis'. Quarry, Terrell, Ellis, Young, Lyle, Chuvalo, Bugner, Cooper, Bonavena, Folley and Shavers aren't an inferior group to Baer, Carnera, Nova, Simon, Godoy, Farr, Pastor, Galento, Burman, Dorazio and Paychek. So yeah, it's Ali for me, and I think it's clear.

 

Does it really matter, this argument is pointless isn't it? Both were behemoths of their era. You could sense there was this kinda competition even between Ali & Louis.

I think, like with any era, the quality of opposition isn't all too different, the best of the eras wouldn't have been easy for either fighter.

 

Welcome to the forum, i see you joined just today. Arguments like this are made every day in here, BTW, It's what we thrive on.

 

Yes, I can see why it is often debated. Does anyone believe Ali would run through all of Louis' opponents with ease, I certainly don't. You always drop on one fighter that gives you a stern test.

 

Well Louis sure wouldn't cut a swathe thru Ali's comp that's for sure. None of Joe's opponents would beat Ali best for best for mine but some of Ali's best for best would certainly be a chance of taking Joe.

 

Possibly, but, then again, Ali could have had difficulty that Louis never encountered because of his punching power.

 

Ali didn't rely on punching power, he consummately outboxed and outsped everybody pre exile. I don't see anyone he couldn't outbox at his peak on Joe's record. Blokes like Baer would be made to order for Ali, to put it mildly.

 

For me Ali quite clearly i think he's a better fighter H2H and beat much sterner opposition overall. Louis has consistency and the title defences in his favour, but i don't think that's enough to trump Ali personally.

 

Yes, and that lack of punching power and finishing ability could get him in to tougher fights than he should have. Do you see a prime Louis having the problems Ali did against someone like Chuvalo?

 

We are talking "peak". What part of 1972 Ali was peak Ali?????

It's fair to say Louis was peaking by the time he beat Braddock. Do you see 60's Ali getting sat on his ass as Joe did? Do you see Galento dropping him on the seat of his duds as he did peak Louis? Do you see him having so much trouble with Godoy? How about a light heavyweight in Billy Conn?

 

He fought Chuvalo more than once.

Yes, I do see him having trouble with a fast LHW.

 

Ali won the 66 fight 13 rounds to 2, you are claiming losing 2 rounds out of 15 equates to "problems"???

Peak Ali would be a nightmare for light heavyweights. He toyed with Foster past his best and he'd put a whooping on Conn too.

 

Muhammad Ali

Muhammad Ali defeated Sonny Liston,Joe Frazier and George Foreman,three men who are
in most peoples all-time top 10 heavyweight-champions.
He also defeated Earnie Shavers who along with George Foreman are generally rated to be
the top two hardest punchers in history.Sonny liston appears in just about everybody's list of
the top 10 hardest punchers in history.
Joe Frazier could well be the greatest pressure fighter in heavyweight history.
Outstanding contenders like Jerry Quarry and Ron Lyle are regarded as being among the
finest heavyweights who never won the World Championship.
All this Muhammad Ali achieved while losing over 3 years of his physical peak while he
took a stand against the Vietnam war,
Your attack on Muhammad Ali's record is totally unjustified.

 

I feel Louis best wins were against Conn and Walcott. Schmeling win was a historical one, but against a standard fighter who comes across very dated on film.

 

Can't agree on Schmeling here. He looked very good when he beat Louis. He controlled the range well and didn't go to Louis' ''kill zone'', used clever footwork and angles, dictated the pace brilliantly, lured Louis into traps, and countered him well. Far from a dated fighter.