The Great Trainers & Fighters on Jack Dempsey

Hey everybody I'm getting somewhere!! :happy That almost sounded like an admission of guilt??

Is there a small part of you that thinks there was anything dodgy about the nature of the ending to the first fight aswell?? The dodgy claims about an injured shoulder?? - Liston like a puppet at the post fight press conference?? - do you think the stuff in Clay's/Ali's eyes was a little bit odd?? The over acted hyper craziness of the weigh in and the hyper crazy over acted behaviour of Ali in ring after Liston stayed on his stool?? The uneasy looks on everyone's faces, from Liston himself, his corner men, the comemntators, Joe Louis, everyone at ringside - don't you smell anything??? Anything at all - everytime I watch this fight with any of my mates - they're always saying theres something not quite right about this fight - to a man - you don't even have to know anything about the background of this fight to get a sense that something was not quite right - Liston should've killed Ali in that 5th round no question??? But then again watch this little snippet - Chuvalo thinks this was Ali's best fight so you're in good company

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUl5pL5zqhI[/ame]

 

Here's a couple of other bits for everyone to enjoy also - PS Angelo Dundee & Ferdie Pacheco are what we'd call on this side of the pond FULL OF $H1T

Liston-Clay fight 1 round 5
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5NqG3OFQMg&feature=related[/ame]

Ali-Liston fight 2

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6yhp93On4I&feature=related[/ame]

 

Hope you got my tone in the last post - I am trying to be very tongue in cheek here McGraindon't get overly angry about it - it's only a couple of dodgy old fights anyways - who gives a damn - all I'm saying is boththe fights combined are the two dodgiest (high profile) fights I've ever seen in my short years - my man Jake Lamotta who I met the other week absolutely assured me that both these fights were crooked aswell haha

PS some of your responses above suggest you might actually be pretty suspicious of these fights afterall?? atsch Apologies if I misunderstood LOL - so you agree that the Liston fight's can not be credibly used to support the myth that Ali is the greatest ever period?? Great stuff man:good you had me going there for a minute

 

I go mainly on head to head and how I think they've performed throughout their careers taking into account circumstances background to the fights age at the time, conditioning at the time etc etc form of oppontent at the time that sort of thing - I also taking into account resume to some extent as far as appreciating the fighters in their own right although some times it does fall down big time - such as if you go by resume then really IMO Floyd Patterson has a greater overall resume than Sonny Liston but then Sonny Liston wiped him out twice in the first round so that kind of renders the resume thing meaningless right there - it's all about the impression you get I suppose - like I know personally that the 2nd Ali-Liston fight was 100% a fix - and all things considered (although I am definately not 100% about their first fight) my gut feeling about the first fight is that something wasn't right with that one either - two much dodginess all round - no other of Ali's fights give me that feeling at all - you can almost smell it from the looks on the faces of everyone involved and the guilty behaviours and responses of everyone involved - I don't get that feeling about any other Ali or Liston fight - I think I have a good eye for spotting when something is fake and I am certain that Liston was acting - can't say for sure how he'd have done mind - had he not been tanking the fights??