The Great Trainers & Fighters on Jack Dempsey

indeed, i beleive that dillon was compared to dempsey and ol jack was very highly thought of, i dont claim to know much about him but jack is one of my fave HW's so it gives an inkling of his admiration i think, as for greb, i rate him p4p either 2nd or 3rd not sure yet between robinson and harry himself. theres not even a handful of fighters that achieved what greb did in the ring, too bad theres no film of it, hes truly was one of the best fighters ever to step into the ring, a bout with him and langford would have been amazing...

 

I have made the point many times that I consider Rocky a great fighter. I just look at him realistically when comparing him and his particular skill sets in match ups with much larger fighters. A few flyweights who circle this Board like flies to **** can't grasp this concept and choose to say I hate Rocky ... I hope this answers your question .

 

bman,nice posting with you..If you who want to gauge Harry Greb's ability
without ever seeing him, go on Mickey Walker vs Marvin Hagler thread now. Watch a clear version of the great Mickey Walker flattening Tommy
Milligan of England in 1927...Walker looks awesome.After seeing this bout,
remember ,one year before at MSG, Harry Greb, one eyed,and on the
downside, gave prime Mickey Walker a whipping...And remember Greb,
took on and beat Tommy gibbons, Tommy Loughran, Gene Tunney, Billy Miske, Jack Dillon, Gunboat Smith, Maxie Rosenbloom,Big Bill Brennan etc.
Guys much bigger, whipping them time and again,with one peeper to boot.
Robinson would NEVER tackle the great light heavies of his time, he knew
his limitations..the Pittsburgh Windmill knew no limitations...Check out the film b...

 

Burt the fact was that he won all his bouts post the Dempsey title shot. What is not fact was determining his peak condition for the title fight. In all three Dempsey autobiographies I read Jack said Billy was through once he hit him in the body. The same Billy basically split two previous bouts with Dempsey and fought him tooth and nail.

I disagee with the way you wave off the oppositon argument ... Ali fought prime Frazier and Foreman and a still terrific Liston ... Robinson fought Gavalin, LaMotta, Fullmer and gang ... I ask you again what fight did he display this force of nature against top opposition ? I don't doubt he might have been able to but I must be missing the fight. AS far as Wills goes, giving Dempsey every benefit of the doubt as I definately do NOT think Jack feared anyone, he still did not fight the number one contender who was much bigger and who had defeated much better opposition. That's a fact.

No doubt he was rough and tough. I don't think that's in dispute. What is to me is how high does he rank and I don't have enough to say he's in the highest tier H2H ...

 

HE, I never said Dempsey';s opposition was as good as Ali's was for the most part...This is no fault of dempsey's,or Louis, to be born at a certain age in history..THEY can not be penalized for this, anymore than Roberto
Duran is ,for not whipping the likes of Lew Tendler, Charley White, Johnny Kilbane, Freddie Welch,Richie Mitchell, Rocky Kansas, that the great Benny
Leonard beat as a LIGHTWEIGHT...Duran ,should not be penalized for
him not facing these alltime great lightweights, and Dempsey also
should not be criticized for being born when he was. Nossir !
We can only beat the fighters of our time. No more, no less..Not to be
redundant, but Dempsey signed to fight Harry Wills for a bout. It was
cancelled for financial reasons,period ! dempsey would have been a
prohibitive favorite in his prime,were they to have met..That is a fact
,regardless of todays agendas...Sam Langford ,after the signing for the
bout, when asked who would win, between Dempsey and Wills responded
"my money is on Jack, for he is the GREATEST heavyweight I have ever seen ".Unquote..Langford was talking about the prime Jack Dempsey, who tore through the heavyweight ranks at that time...He knew the Manassa
Maulers ability, that you or I have NEVER seen on film, except the out
of sync Willard slaughter in 1919..i place my faith in Langford, and a host oif great fighters and writers of that time who saw young Dempsey in
his prime...
I rate Dempsey so highly by what I have seen of some snips of him on film.Such as a small segment in the firpo fight, when Dempsey and huge Firpo are almost in a clinch, and strong Dempsey frees his left hand and
with virtually no punching room,left hook-uppercuts Firpo with such
speed and viciousness,that has me in awe,and made me realize what a force of nature Dempsey was in his prime, regardless of when he happened to be born..This Dempsey's unique heavyweight qualities would
have brought him to the top in any era...Check out the Firpo fight snippet!

 

I have that on tape too, and I must say he threw that punch so fast I had to watch it several times to even see it. In fact the only reason I knew it was throw was because of the affect it had on Firpo.

 

Great thread with some equally great posts and points made either side. Havent enjoyed a thread as much in ages. Most of the posters on this really know their onions

 

Look, there is no doubt that Dempsey was incredibly tough. His hand speed was explosive when thrown in fluries as we see agains Carpentier to the body, Fripo and of course Tunney on the ropes. His two handed power was terrific and his heart unquestioned ... My frustration with his career has always been that he never maximized his talent. Just when he really hit his stride he stopped cold and regressed .. by his own admittance he peaked w Willard and started to go downhill from there ... I understand that his career was guided by money but it robbed us from seeing just how terrific he could have been .. and by not fighting Wills who was a highly skilled, highly accomplished bigger man we never saw him fight the best of his own time ... these are issues that force me to be unsure of him despite my loving of the man and his legend ..

 

HE, fair enough....Your point is well taken...I agree that Dempsey had a
short time when he was at his zenith...But please bear in mind that the
young hobo from the West had been in 100s of brawls in the bars and fleshpots of the West, and by the time he turned pro at an early age,
surely expended much energy, before meeting Jack Kearns...He had no
amateur career, and was an "old" 24 year old, when he kod jess Willard.
This is a fact that is not well known...Riding the rods underneath the
trains,eating what you can scrounge ,for years as a youth, takes it's toll,
wouldn't you agree ?
I, along with virtually all who saw dempsey in his prime fight, concurred that he,was the greatest heavyweight of his time, since Lil Arthur,
Jack Johnson was champion..They were different style fighters of course..
So I agree his record as a champion ,was not as impressive on record as
Ali or Louis, but those were the fighters available to him at that time in history..But he was the best of his time, and his unique heavyweight qualities, [a larger, earlier edition of Roberto duran ], may never be
seen again...HE, good show !

 

It's also fair to say that Dempsey missed Wills (possibly Greb but I don't take that one too seriously) but there are plenty of fighters around who missed multiple rivals in their careers.

His pre-title record is one of the best in the division's history. His athelticism and skill set are sensational. And he lived during an amazing era.

 

That was an excellent read... cheers :good

 

dempsey was also floored several times early in his carrear because of the no neutral corner rule, so that worked against him too. It goes both ways

 

And? I was giving an answer to why Dempsey got Willard out so quickly when it took Louis much longer to get out a poorly skilled behemoth.