The Greatest heavyweight Champion ever: Period.

Champions? This thins out the competition quite a bit. Quite a few all-time great hws won´t be included due to their weak title run. This leaves us with the following guys imo.

Sullivan
Jeffries
Louis
Marciano
Ali
Tyson

Of those six, I would say Louis. All have arguments though.

 

+1

 

Louis' destruction of Max Baer was one of the most impressive performances I've ever seen. If that was the only Louis fight I had ever watched, I would probably find it impossible to believe, that he could have been beaten by any another fighter in history.

Problem is, I have seen him in other fights, and while he obviously feasted on big, lumbering guys that presented a stationary target, he was less impressive against elusive, technical boxers.

I can't help but think, that a young Ali would have given him all sorts of trouble and beaten him quite easily on points. Sure, you can't rule out that Louis catches him sooner or later with a bomb - but even if he did, that doesn't automatically mean a ko win for Louis, as Ali had one of the best chins ever.

 

The Brown bomber

 

I agree with this, but i might add the following for consideration - Tyson, Holmes, Lewis and Johnson. MOreso, if you considered the coloured or Alphabet titles as part of their reign.

 

If you include the coloured crown you must include Johnson. However, this is about the linear title and so I can´t. Johnson´s reign of this title wasn´t good enough to include him. Lewis won the title in his second match with Holyfield. His reign afterwards wasn´t impressive enough to include him. Holmes did not give rematches to guys who drove him close, a great champ does that. Tyson is on that list - but he has the weakest arguments of all the fighters who are on it.

 

Yeah all good points. I think Holmes may be entitled to a little better respect for his championship reign though. It was very good. What do you think of Tommy Burns' reign? He wasnt the greatest, but he sure did have a solid reign and ducked no one. In some ways, i think you might ad him to the list as Greatest "Champion" if nothing else. He had more KOs in a row than anyone, he travelled and fought the best that no one else would fight, including the best coloured fighter. He won the title in an upset, and went out on his sword, still trying to the very end even though outgunned by arguably one of the best ever. He defended as often as anyone. I think he was a true champion, and may qualify for the title, even if he was not the best fighter.

 

Holmes reing was good but he failed to face some of the guys he should have faced and he didn´t gave rematches. Something that imo is important when you are champ.

To tell you the truth I didn´t even think about Burns. You could hold against him that he didn´t face the best black men aside of Johnson. But then I don´t hold this against the fighters of his time much. Still he was seen as a weak champion by his contemporaries and today he is seen as a placeholder for Johnson after Jeffries. But you are right, there are arguments that can be made for him. Better than for some fighters who rank higher than him even.

 

I just have to go for Ali here. Whilst not taking anything away from the great joe louis (my number 2 ), i just cannot see him beating Ali on pts nor can i see him knocking Ali out. Once again i stress my admiration for Louis but there is a big difference between Baer and schmeling for example, and Ali. These wins were great wins for Joe but the oppositions reaction to getting tagged was to stand completely still on the ropes and at the mercy of Joes considerable pounding. IMO if it was Ali tagged, he'd be on his bike, moving left moving right, tying up, holding, spoiling, anything and everything he can do til the cobwebs cleared. Thats if he was tagged. I make no apologys for repeating myself here but the Ali of 66-67 was as close to unbeatable as you can get.
Im not disrespecting Baer and Schmeling by the way as they were 2 fine fighters. Im only using them as an example and a yardstick to measure the difference in reactions between a good fighter in Joes era, and Ali. I also feel that Ali, who also fought his fair share of bums, generally fought better opposition than Louis. This isnt Joes fault as he could only fight the guys who were around at the time and he ducked no-one, but Frazier, Foreman, Norton, Liston, Patterson,Quarry, Williams, and near the end of his career, Shavers, lyle, young, are some collection of names to have on your resume.

Its all opinions and no doubt there will be many who disagree so feel free to tear me a new one.

 

What has this to do with beeing the greatest hw champ? It is about their reigns. And Louis´ reign is more impressive than Ali´s. I mean Frazier I and II or Foreman are not part of his reign ... just as an example. Spinks I is, Spinks II is not and so on.

 

Yeah, i dont really think you can hold not fighting coloured fighters against Tommy Burns. He was the first World Champion to say, to hell with the colour bar or anything else, i am fighting the best fighter whereever i go. Johnson had to chase him a little bit, but not much. Johnson was the best coloured fighter and he did fight him! He also was negotiating, as i understand, with Langford and others. He didnt conform, he just fought fighters. I think he was a real champion. Some even say that Louis was a bit more politically sensitive and conformist. It is just a same, he wasnt quite in the same class as many of the other great champions.

Incidentally, so far as actual title reigns go, i think that Louis' is the best. Probably ahead of Marciano.

 

Louis
Marciano
Jeffries
Ali
Sullivan
Tyson

is how I would have it.

 

1.?
2.?
3?
4.Louis.
5.Liston
6.Holmes
7. Foreman
8.Lewis
9.Marciano.
10.Frazier.

 

Being from Massachusetts..I'll take Marciano.....stamina...chin...power...conditioning...
ability to take it...AND...dish it out...never taking a backward step...his "kill or be killed" attitude...pressure..pressure...pressure..taking two to land one...hurting you no matter where he hit you.....class guy in and out of the ring...

 

lol