The Greatest Middleweights of All Time

Not easily, but I can sure think of 10 who could. His record at middleweight is good but not great, he split a couple of decisions with Sumbu Kalambay, had a draw and a loss to Toney and a split decision over Herol Graham. 11-2-1, Also had a win over Frank Minton. I don't rank him very highly at all at 160

 

What about these :
Monzon
Greb
Hagler
SRR
Valdez
Steele
Tiger
Cerdan
Zale
Fitz
most of the above easily . stay safe buddy.

 

1. Harry Greb
2. Stanley Ketchel/Sam Langford
4. Tommy Ryan
5. Kid McCoy
6. Bob Fitzsimmons
7. Mickey Walker/Sugar Ray Robinson
9. Marcel Cerdan
10. Les Darcy
11. Mike Gibbons
12. Charley Burley
13. Carlos Monzon/Marvelous Marvin Hagler
15. Tiger Flowers/Jake LaMotta
17. Nonpareil Jack Dempsey
18. Frank Klaus
19. Billy Papke
20. Dick Tiger
21. Tony Zale/Jeff Smith
23. Holman Williams
24. Gene Fullmer
25. Freddie Steele
26. Ken Overlin
27. Ezzard Charles/Billy Conn
29. Fred Apostoli
30. Teddy Yarosz
31. Randy Turpin
32. Bernard Hopkins/Joey Giardello/Joey Archer

 

Hi Buddy.
Not seen a list quite like yours before, some interesting choices at interesting places, it's all personal as we know, for me Monzon just might be a little low at 12, but your entitled to your opinion, and it should be respected by fellow posters .
stay safe Jim, chat soon.

 

Given your obvious proclivity for favouring fighters from long ago eras, perhaps the most surprising thing about this list is the omission of Jack Dillon.

 

Dillon did most of his best work as a Light-Heavyweight. That was when he really came into his own.

 

Hello Mike,

Who would you take out in order to insert Mr. Monzon?

 

Hi Buddy.
So, I would have him above, McCoy, Ryan, and Cerdan defo, Ketchell has lost a lot of lustre over the years, so him as well, I have Monzon around 3/4 on my all time, and pick em with SRR-Greb-Hagler, Fitz or Langford might separate the order, who knows.
stay safe amigo, chat soon.

 

I always felt that an aggressive two handed pressure fighter like Cerdan or Walker would give Monzon a lot of problems. Monzon had a great jab but wasn't the fastest and wasn't the hardest puncher. Head to head, I don't think he's as good as those guys.
Tommy Ryan was the champ for about 7 years (and 5 years as a Welterweight). McCoy was one of the smartest, craftiest boxers ever, Ketchel is by far the greatest KO artist in the divisions history. These guys were pioneers of the sport.
Monzon is definitely a great fighter and I would never try to demean him.

 

I think his MW resume is at least equal to his LHW resume. According to my notes:

Middleweight:

• Record - Around 64-9-8
• Key wins - George Chip x 8, Eddie McGoorty (1-2-1), Leo Houck (2-1), Hugo Kelly, Willie KO Brennan, Buck Grouse, Mike Twin Sullivan, Bob Moha (3-0-1), Frank Klaus (1-2-1), Gus Christie x 4, Frank Mantell & Jack McCarron
• Losses in or around his prime = 5 - Frank Klaus (1-2-1), Mike Gibbons x 2 & Leo Houck (2-1)
• World title record - N/A

Light Heavyweight:

• Record - 85-21-12
• Key wins - Battling Levinksy (5-2-2), Fireman Jim Flynn, Bob Moha x 2, Gunboat Smith, Gus Christie x 2, Jack Twin Sullivan, Billy Miske (1-4) & Al McCoy (2-0-1)
• Losses in or around his prime = 8 - Tom McMahon, Billy Miske (1-4), Harry Greb x 2 & George Chip
  
• World title record - 5-1-1 during 2.5-year reign

It depends how much emphasis you put on him being world champion. Whilst that factors into my ranking, I mostly base mine on dominance during prime, quality of fighters beaten and prime loses. For what it's worth, I rank Dillon at #18 at MW & #20 at LHW.

My top 20 @ MW, based entirely on fights contested in & around MW & completely excluding anticipated results in cross era fantasy H2H contests:

1) Greb
2) Monzon
3) Hagler
4) SRR
5) Hopkins
6) M. Gibbons
7) Ketchel
8) Steele
9) Ryan
10) Burley
11) Williams
12) Apolstoli
13) GGG
14) Fitzsimmons
15) Walker
16) LaMotta
17) Yarosz
18) Dillon
19) Flowers
20) Tiger

I believe I've never seen Apolstoli ranked as I high as I do, I suspect most on the Classic Forum would rank GGG lower and most rank Tiger higher.

Admittedly

 

not me

 

I have Apostoli quite high in my list aswell. Like you, I also rank Mike Gibbons very high too.

Your list is a very solid one, imo.

 

Putting Jack Dillon at #20 LHW makes no sense whatsoever. He's top 5. He was the champion for almost 3 years moved up and took out heavyweights.
His losses against Greb happened when he was past his best.

 

Robinson was unbeatable at welterweight--No. 1 without a doubt. That's where his highest all-time rating belongs. He was past his prime and beatable at middleweight: Turpin, Tiger Jones, Fullmer, Basilio, Pender. You can make excuses about rustiness and age about some of them, but the loss to Turpin came when he was at his middleweight best. And five-time champion cuts no weight with me. A continuous run is much more impressive.

 

Sorry, that's laughable. Having Monzon and Hagler at 13th below guys like Ryan and McCoy, and even Fitz who didn't do all that much at 160 is absurd.