The Greatest Pound for Pound fighter of all time?

No love for Barney Ross???

 

Whitaker had some of the best boxing skills of all time espicaly on defence and won tittles at lightweight, jr. welteweight, welterweight, and jr. middle weight.
Leonard was the best at any single weight (lightweight)
Robinson was a 2 division (welterweight and middleweight) champion and probbly the best offencve boxer of all time.
Jones was an amazingly gifted athlete and on tittles at middleweight, S. Middleweight, Lightheaveyweight, and Heaveyweight.

 

This content is protected

This content is protected

This content is protected

 

:good

 

A limited fighter who was number 1 p4p for a decade?That's a new one.

The Hopkins comparison is particularly odious seeing as Jones chose to challenge himself buy climbing up in weight and fighting naturally larger men.As opposed to Hopkins who for a long time bludged at Middleweight beating up on no names and fattening his record and reputation on "name" fighters moving up in weight.

As for Hopkins being green when they fought that's a crock of ****.Hopkins was older had had more professional fights and was already a ranked contender.He wasn't a novice 4 round kid.The truth was they were both short of their primes but were already very,very good fighters.And Jones beat him comfortably,and for you to say that Jones fought like a coward when it was Hop's who was too wary to let his hands go until the last 2 rounds suggests to me that you haven't seen the fight and are parrotting what a few biased idiots say about it.

By the way it was Hopkins who turned down a 60/40 split and a $6,000,000 payday because he reckoned he deserved a 50/50 split even though Jones was the much bigger name.Instead he took peanuts to fight Morrade Hakkar which shows you how fair dinkum Hopkins was about fighting Roy.

James Toney was considered number 1 or 2 p4p in the world and was undefeated in 44 fights when he fought Roy and was a warm favourite going in.But Roy spanked and humiliated a superb "old school" fighter in one of the most brilliant performances of the decade and to say it was nothing special shows a lack of knowledge or a spite filled closed mind.

You say Jones's Lt Heavy opposition was littered with unspectacular fighters then so was Bob Fosters and he's still rated very highly.And really names like Hill,Tarver (Jones deserved the win in the first fight),McCallum,Woods,Gonzalez,Griffin,Harding and Reggie Johnson aren't that bad a set of names to have on a resume.

Jones's win over Ruiz didn't make him a legit Heavyweight champ but it was still a great performance over a decent Heavyweight considering he was 30 pounds lighter and tiny by comparison.He handled Ruiz better than Holyfield,Valuev,Chagaev or Rahman could.To disregard this victory completely would be a folly and he deserves credit for it.

Personally I don't rate Jones in the top 10 pfp of all time either but if some people do I don't mind too much.Either way he deserves better than to have all his accomplishments downplayed and be called a coward by the likes of you.I recall you also reckon Joe Louis and Max Schmeling were cowards for not gloating over beaten white opponents or renouncing Adolph Hitler,so you're obviously a hard man of even harder standards.

Over and out.

 

Young Griffo is right

It's not entirely fair to criticise Jones for his loss to Tarver given his age.

 

Anyone looking to take down Jones at this stage of his career is kidding themself.

 

Henry Armstrong would be #1 on my list.

 

:good
Fighters fight and they get old and they lose.It happens to (nearly) all of them.
What I dislike (and I know I've been guilty of it as well) is how some people seem to think a loss late in a fighter's career automatically undoes all that they achieved beforehand and is used as an example of their previously unseen vulnerability and not simply age catching up with them.
Revisionist scrutiny of a fighters career can give a distorted view and is unfair if it focuses on the negative.We've seen people on here do it to Joe Louis,Muhummad Ali and Ray Leonard and it can portray the greatest fighters in a poor light.

 

The incomparable roberto duran......

 

To answer this thread I make it a tie between Sugar Ray Robinson and Henry Armstrong with Harry Greb just behind.

Honourable mentions to Ali,Louis,Jofre,Duran,Hagler,Whitaker,Pep etc etc.

 

Don't care. Your list is ****ed.

 

1. Henry Amstrong
2. Harry Greb
3. Ray Robinson
4. Benny Leonard
5. Ezzard Charles
6. Willie Pep
7. Roberto Duran
8. Archie Moore
9. Joe Gans
10. Barney Ross

Booyakasha.

 

1. The Hopkins comparison was merely in terms of technical ability, you have masterfully overlooked my point. Hopkins is greatly diminished physically but still a force to be reckoned with, and one of the best fighters in the world at age 43. Has Jones stood the same test of time? No. Why? Inferior technique, reliance on athletic gifts. Staying at middleweight has nothing to do with my argument whatsoever.

2. Jones was not P4P1 for a decade. He was thereabouts for a decade, yes.

3. I have seen the fight - Stop twisting my goddamn words! I said Roy fought passively, which is excusable if he's the smaller, weaker fighter, but not when he has the edge in power. It was one of the most boring fights I have ever seen. And Hopkins WAS green. He lost his first professional fight to a nobody. What does this tell you? He was nowhere near the finished product WHEN HE BEGAN HIS PRO CAREER! He built his abilities from here on in, and like a fine wine got better with age.

4. As I said, James Toney is his best win, I agree with you. However, I don't rate him in the top100. An example of a "special" victory for me is Leonard Vs Hearns. Duran Vs Leonard. Frazier Vs Ali. Ali Vs Foreman. Can you really class Jones Vs Toney up there with those type of fights? If you do then you're simply delusional.

5. I do rate Jones in the top10 lightheavyweights. Certainly behind Charles, Moore, Tunney, and Spinks however. 3 of those fighters became lineal heavyweight champions. And they're the fighters I feel that there is absolutely no argument with.

6. Ruiz is a fraud. Deal with it. There was no heavyweight better suited to Jones style. A plodding defensive minded fraud whose reputation had been built on robberies. If it was such a great victory why didn't he challenge other heavyweights?

7. So Jones beat a fighter with a 30lbs weight advantage ay. I guess that makes him one of about 200 fighters to accomplish this. Top10 material for sure atsch :scaredas:

8. So you make your argument and then back up all your claims by saying you DON'T rate him in the top ten? Where do you rate him then? I have him somewhere between 50-100, If I actually made a concrete list he could scrape into the top50.

The problem with your argument is you keep harping on and on about what Jones achieved - NOT what he achieved compared to other fighters. That is what P4P lists are all about. Do you really think his accomplishments stand up there with Ray Robinson, Pep, Ross, Fitzsimmons, Hank, and the other names mentioned on this thread? Ofcourse they don't. What he accomplished is fantastic and admirable, just not as fantastic and admirable as other fighters.

9. I retracted my criticism of Schmeling; But out of the ring ofcourse I felt Joe Louis was grateful in his attitude towards whites. And you might remember it was the "Who is the nicest guy in boxing" thread. I merely pointed out Joe Louis beat a woman within an inch of her life, and by his own admission says he would've killed her had he not been stopped. He also cheated on all his wives, constantly and with no remorse. Do you think this man is the nicest person in the history of pugilism?