The Greb Myth: Why do people still believe Greb existed?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by cross_trainer, Nov 25, 2021.



  1. Journeyman92

    Journeyman92 I’m become seeker of milk Full Member

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    In a time before coloured cameras almost the whole of America only saw someone in either black or white so you’re close.
     
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  2. Cecil

    Cecil Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Well, first hand witness there.
    Tunney didn’t hide the fact that he appears to have been beaten up by Greb!
     
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  3. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    He's just playing the long con. By pretending that "Greb" existed, Tunney could claim credit for all of the times he beat this putative great.
     
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  4. Mike Cannon

    Mike Cannon Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Good point , why don't we dig them up and ask ? irrefutable evidence I would say... keep well.
     
  5. djanders

    djanders Boxing Addict Full Member

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    And before Newton, we could all fly. Sir Isaac took our lighter than air MOJO from us. When Flo used to say: "When pigs fly" the last word was always edited out. "When pigs fly AGAIN!"
     
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  6. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra H2H Burger King Full Member

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    Greb was a social experiment funded by the CIA.

    It started when a group of trainers, frustrated that they couldn't get their students motivated, were brainstorming ideas while smoking cuban cigars and heavily intoxicated. They all came to the conclusion that by making up a legendary boxer they could have their pupils attempting to reach an unattainable goal which would in theory keep them inspired.

    At first it was no trouble at all keeping up the charade. They could look at a boxer shadow boxing and comment something like "your hooks pretty good, but not as good as old Greb's...!". Or "you've got a pretty good record kid, but go for glory and try to beat Greb's record!". The genius of the plan was that they didn't need to come up with a long winded elaborate biography or stories of Greb's boxing prowess. Just small snippets and comments like these would be the seeds, and gym talk would inevitably allow the story to spread like wildfire. Rumors grew like weeds and soon fighters around the country somehow knew so much about Greb and his accomplishments.

    But this couldn't last forever and soon boxers began to demand they could have a match with Greb, a spar, or at the very least a chance to see him in action. Excuses would be made such as "Oh, you're not ready to take him on!" But soon the most determined skeptics would press the issue. Attendance at gyms declined and fighters began to slack off.

    Desperate, they turned to Tunney and explained the situation. He offered his help and said he'd try to call in some favors using his connections in the Marines and high society. Tunney was eventually able to secure a meeting with a CIA agent who was fascinated with the idea of a completely fabricated boxer whose one of the best in the sport. The agent pitched the idea to his superiors who were also amused and curious to see how long the charade could keep up. They sent one of their best, a man with photographic memory and an uncanny ability to remain in character for years even when startled or woken up.

    While the agent took on the Greb persona and fought tomato cans, writers such as Nat Fleischer got on board hyping up the fraud. They both embellished his record with an absurdly high number of fights and embellished his abilities by showering him with praise in newspapers. This only worked for so long and he needed credibility by facing worthy opponents. Once again, Tunney offered his help by being willing to sacrifice his 0 and allow the "legendary" Greb to hand him his only defeat. Tunney was also able to get Dempsey on board as he felt indebted to the sport that saved him from starvation and poverty. Dempsey was perfect as he was a smaller HW and not a giant behemoth like Willard so Greb holding his own wasn't so unbelievable. Plus, it was just a sparring match. But that was enough to send ripples of admiration for the Pittsburgh windmill.

    The plan was a complete success. To forge birth, school, and fight records was a piece of cake for the CIA and the writers at the time when documentation was fairly poor for much of the population. As for the lack of footage, it was child's play to have agents either destroy whatever was recorded or to simply prevent reporters from entering arenas with cameras with bogus excuses such as "we have a contract, only we can have the rights to footage of this fight".

    Since he was so popular, "Greb" would inevitably be hunted down and bombarded with questions by reporters and historians after retirement. The solution was simple: kill him. Throughout history, the powers that be were involved in the deaths of numerous celebrities who perished at an early age such as Bruce Lee, Bob Marley, Malcolm X, etc. Taking Greb out at such a young age of 32 would only add to the legend and hype. The agent sailed off into the sunset with a fat wallet and a huge grin.
     
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  7. timmers612

    timmers612 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    A nonsense posting, the only thing interesting about it is the poster may actually believe his own rational. Really? Burt Bionstock who was one of the great posters here until he passed close too 100 years old, his father was unique in that he saw both the 1920's Greb and the prime welterweight Sugar Ray Robinson fight and he thought Greb would have been a little too much for him. As for those real people who saw, fought and knew him besides his father I like what Tiger Flowers said he spoke to Greb in their fight as Harry liked to swear all fight long, "Please don't take the Lord's name in vein Mr Greb." Tiger being a Baptist deacon was known as a man who didn't lie and that included about Harry.
     
  8. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    Indeed.

    Given its inescapable plausibility, I have little choice.

    I hadn't heard. That's a shame. He was always a courteous and interesting poster.

    Very well. I require Youtube clips of Flowers being elected deacon to confirm this story.
     
  9. Toker

    Toker Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I'm with you on Greb and Marvin Hart, but you're going to have to explain Millard Fillmore to me. What happened after Zachary Taylor died? Or is it that you don't believe that Taylor died?
     
  10. thistle

    thistle Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Greb's an easy one, he is an ATG Elite Fighter - No Question...

    however. Greb's Era was transitional in that it wasn't as 'refined or athletic' as Boxing became by the Late 20s & 30s, it wasn't as crude as the late 1800's turn of the Century, but it still wasn't the Slick Boxing Stylist and Athletes that Boxing became.

    the Era overall would be 2cd, 3rd, or 4th to the Era's between the 30's - 70s generally speaking.

    that's how I known to understand it anyway(?).
     
  11. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    Your question assumes that there was a Zachary Taylor to die in the first place.
     
  12. Toker

    Toker Well-Known Member Full Member

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    You just blew my mind. I have to talk to my shape shifting lizard friend about this. He knows everything but doe not divulge anything without being inebriated.
     
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  13. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    If I believed you existed, I would wish you luck with your lizard friend.
     
  14. Toker

    Toker Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Thank you for the sentiment, but luck isn't necessary just Don Julio anejo.
     
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  15. Pugguy

    Pugguy Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I believe the Holy Grail of boxing, the lost films of Harry Greb, are hidden, perfectly preserved in canisters, buried beneath the flooring of the Louvre in Paris, France. Directly beneath the inverted pyramid.

    I don’t know how or why, but this just came to me in a dream, as if by divine (Davinci?) intervention. I feel like Harry has specially selected me as his conduit to the living (and all too cynical) world. I am programmed to receive, Harry.

    Will the unearthing of these films finally stop the madness? Even my local library and bookstores have relocated all Greb bios to the FICTION section, sub category FANTASY. Do they not understand that The Human Windmill is a metaphor. WTF?

    I can’t wait til these films are dug up and aired publicly. Particularly Greb’s beat down of Tunney. However, IF the pummelling of Gene looks anything like this, sans “pummeller”, we might have to call in Mouldy and Sculler to open a Greb file and investigate. I mean, the truth is out there, right?

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