The heavyweight lineage if James Jeffries had never existed

For those picking Johnson to reign from 1902 onward, are we forgetting that he lost to Hart in 1905? If he already had the belt, would he try to avoid Hart and fight the Root's and Brusso's of the world?

 

Depends on where it ended up, I suspect. He didn't seem to dictate the terms against Jeffries. And was the Johnson of '05, or even '02, the polished pro that would certainly beat a determined Hart? The record says No. And if Johnson did get the title in 02, wouldn't Choynski be clamoring for a shot? Could he repeat his initial performance only a few months later?

 

You mean the fight that most ringside reports had him winning? That fight? I say johnson would dominate from 04 onward... He could do so earlier.. but would be more likely to lose it earlier as well.

 

Denver Ed Martin keeps Fitz on the end of a jab for 15 rounds, takes his title in 1902

 

I mean the fight that he lost under the rules and interpretation of the time? That fight? Sure.

He didn't grasp the moment of greatest importance in his career and gave away an opportunity for a title shot. Jeffries deemed both fighters unworthy of challenging him for their efforts.

Yes, that fight.

 

I don't think this is entirely correct, they were the rules and interpretation of Alex Creggains the promoter ,owner ,and referee of the venue, not those of the time.

Other witnesses of the affray stated Johnson deserved the decision, whilst Johnson undoubtedly dropped the ball by not closing the show convincingly, excellent judges like the premier referee of the time George Siler called it," a very strange decision".

WW Naughton, who was no friend of Johnson's ,writing in the Police Gazette stated, "Johnson deserved no worse than a draw". Certainly Hart displayed gameness and durability ,soaking up a tremendous amount of punishment without faltering whereas Johnson finished the fight unmarked.

Creggains said he gave it to Hart because he was "aggressive". The interpretation of aggression is that it must be effective to count, ,and for at least half of the fight Hart's charges mostly hit fresh air, whilst Johnson was countering him, and scoring without difficulty.

Johnson's tendency to coast, and loaf cost him dearly , I don't think for a moment Jeffries would have defended against him if he had won ,[ he had already stated he would retire rather than fight a black challenger], but it appears to have affected,and tainted Johnson's legacy .

Losing to a fighter perceived as a moderate champion having perhaps his best night ever, whereas he himself destroyed the man who beat Hart in Tommy Burns.

 

Way to early for Johnson, he'd accomplished very little by 1902. I'd say early 1904 after he had a few defences of his coloured world title, and talk of a Johnson Jeffries fight was about. Of course these talks would not be happening, however a fight between Johnson and the hypothetical heavyweight champion of the time would have been in talks IMO.

 

Right.. the fight most people felt like Johnson won.. the fight that if we judge by today's standards... Johnson wins with utter ease... The fight where the fighter who was awarded the decision was cut up and hit with the harder blows... and the "loser" not even a mark on him. Johnson, while not even giving 100% beat by most people opinion a fighter who while game, couldn't then or ever hold his jockstrap.. Yeah that fight...

 

Denver Ed Martin keeps Fitz on the end of a jab for 15 rounds, takes his title in 1902

 

If Jeffries didn't exist there would be a vacuum in the space/time continuum which would threaten to collapse the entire universe until Jack Johnson would grab both ends and heal the seams with his tears.

 

LOL

By the way Seamus... Congrats on Portugal advancing... It's just too bad they won't win it all... Good win against The Orange Machine though

 

Not in Portugal any longer but following the Cup stateside. Nothing like having an excuse to lift a few pints before noon!