The heavyweights really are crap, aren't they?

Well, you were right but still, i can´t see how Toney could be ranked that highly, Peter too for that matter but he was way too much hyped then anyway.

I don´t remember my rankings of the time anymore. Bought a new PC and my new one didn´t acknowledge my external hdd so most of my data was lost.

 

I think that is doable.

 

I would disagree: The 80s (minus Holmes and Tyson) was the era of the Heavies that should of, could of, but did not; the Crown Prince of the Lost Genration being Terrible Tim.

The 90s had four fighters who are in most peoples top 12 fighting for long periods if not all of the decade (Holyfield/Lewis/Tyson/Foreman), a fifth if you include The Black Cloud.

On top of this you had the engima of Bowe, the glimpses of what could of been in the remains of the lost Generation (Douglas/Tyson and Whitherspoon's India summer of the mid 90s); and a fair few solid and fun contenders to add spice every now and again (Tua/McCall/Mercer/Golota even The Duke).

The 80s Heavies were underrated in the 80s; but in 2000's that was corrected to the point they have become overrated IMO.

 

You have the floor!

 

Yes, the 80s had a lot of heavyweights who seemed to have quality but were lazy or inconsistent.

But the 90s had less fighters who even SEEMED to have the quality, and just as much inconsistency.

The very fact that Larry Holmes and George Foreman were fighting in their 40s AND beating ranked fighters is an embarrassment to the era, indicative of the lack of depth.

I'm not going to overrate the 80s to make the 90s seem bad, I dont think the 80s were MUCH better, but the 90s were worse.

All those "lost generation" 80s "alphabet champs", on their best days they could impress me more than the likes of Mercer, Morrison, McCall and Moorer, or Seldon, Schulz.
Bowe was similar quality to Witherspoon, fought most of his fights below-potential. I dont rate Lewis as high as some do.

But I guess it's all a matter of opinion. I think the 90s heavyweight scene was quite dire on the whole, but perhaps, as you say, the heavy division always sucks.

 

Sure. But what barn burner fight has wlad tested his stamina in since 2004? sam peter fight? In that fight wladimir got exhausted and went down the 3rd time from exhaustion, not from a punch if u watch the film. he nearly had another panic attack.

who wlad couldnt knock out? wlads arm punching less powerful brother vitali knocked purrity out, im sure wladimir could have knocked him out. wlad was a 24-0 seasoned professional with amazing amatuer credentials, there is no exuses. he got exposed against purrity plain and simple. his management put him in with a unrated non powerful journeyman, wlad should have put him away.

wasnt steward his trainer for brewster fight?


2ndly, he punched himself out in just 5 rounds? what kind of fighting condition is that? I mean thats far worse stamina than foreman ever showed.

yes because he had mental panic attacks. no worries, my father used to get them too during his professional baseball days in them minors. Some people get them under extreme stress levels, others its a genetic thing.

 

Well, it looks like I've created a monster by mentioning Marciano-Cockell in my post all the way back on the first page. I thought this fight was analogous to the Wlad-Thompson fight in that it was a dominant top heavyweight pitching a virtual shut-out and stopping a ranked opponent, but looking ordinary and beatable in doing so, and against a rather unimpressive ranked opponent. I believe both of these performances draw some legitimate criticism, but I do not believe that they constitute a "blemish" on either man's record.

 

Cockell was a blown up lightheavy, and not a particularly hard hitter.

 

Ok, here it goes. First, we must remember that Cockell was a sick man in 1955. After Marciano Ko'd him in 9, Valdes quickly TKO'd Cockell in 3 rounds, than some obscure fighter in Lave Ko'd Cockell in 2 rounds.

So in a less than a year’s span from 5-16-1955 TO 4-24-1956, Cockell was 0-3, and was Ko'd 3 times. It is likely Cockell won no more than say 2 rounds won in his last three fights.

By the way, the Valdes who beat Cockell was on a 2 fight-losing streak, and lost his next two after he beat Cockell for a 1-4 record with the only win being Cockell in a 5 fight span.

Lave was a journeyman, who lost his next fight after he defeated Cockell. Then Lave beat 2 journeyman, and lost 4 in a row.

After reading this, do you really think I cannot name 20 heavyweights out there today that could not beat this version of Cockell?

The answer to this question will save me from typing in 20 names.

 

"Cockell was a sick man in 1955". Are you out of your f*****g mind? Cockell was on a roll he had won his last 10 fights ,hadnt lost a fight in 3 years ,and that as a Light Heavy against Turpin for the British Empire title.Cockell had beaten Mathews 3 times the last by stoppage ,Lastarza,Bacilieri,and Johnny Athur the British Empire Champ .You really dont know anything about Cockell do you? Have you even seen any of his fights apart from his title challenge to Marciano ? Ive met Cockell and spoken to him about his career,he was a paint rep for a company my Ex Wife worked for.After contracting glandular fever Cockell put on weight and campaigned as a Heavyweight.HE WAS NOT SICK WHEN HE MET MARCIANO,no sick man goes 9 rounds with Rocky ,as Marciano said "my best punches didnt seem to affect him at all","He's a tough brave guy" .Marciano ruined Cockell he was never the same after wards ,but going in to the fight he was as good as he ever was in his career.You need to do some research Medoza ,before making such silly statements.Now get busy with that list ! How about a modern big man that has just acheived a great victory ,Povetkin? And over the formidable Taurus Sykes :rofl

 

I am talking about Cockell, who had some sort of glandular disorder when he fought Marciano the finish of his career. That guy would be toast today.

Just to review what I wrote:

You want 20 names. Ok.

Wlad
Peter
Chagaev
Valuev
Toney
Virchis
Ruiz
Ibraigmov
Dimitrenko
Bidenko
Maskeav
Tua
Haye
Solis
Areola
Gomez
Boystov
Ustinov
Chambers
Skelton

Honestly Mcvey, I do not understand you ax to grind. If you know Cockell my intension here was not to personally insult the man. My apologies. I just felt his performance vs Marciano was not impressive at all. Cockell was a mostly a punching bag in this fight. He did not show any skill on offense or defense, nor did he have much speed or power. That version of Cockell would not be top 20 at heavyweight today, and I’d pick all of the above names to beat him. In fact, I would pick some cruisers and light heavies to beat him, and since you used those names to build Cockell up, I can add them to my list if I feel like it.


Regarding Cockell's durablity, he was stopped SIX times before he meet Maricano, and FIVE fighters did it faster than Rocky did in 9 rounds. Honestly, none of the fighters who stopped Cockell prior to Maricano would come close to being called a heavyweight puncher today. Not one. Maricnao had sub par fight vs Cockell by his own standards. This is a reason why Cockell lasted as long as he did.

 

what a bunch of nonsense. the only reason cockell went into a nose dive post marciano was BECAUSE marciano ruined cockell, he gave him the beating of his life. Cockell heading into the marciano fight had won 10 in a row and was at the peak of his powers at 26 years old on the best winning streak of his career. u have a habit of critisizing marcianos opponents for their records AFTER they fought marciano, while not taking into context there records COMING INTO the marciano fight

Take note though he had the glandular issue, it did not affect his stamina, it was not some disease that made u weaker. all it did was make him gain weight but as long as he ate normally he was fine.

 

I think cockell would beat at least a few guys on this list.

 

do you know what a glandular condition is? it does not affect your stamina at all. cockell already had the condition for half a decade. he was at the peak of his career age 26 when he fought marciano, he won 10 fights in a row on the best winning streak of his career.

Cockell was beaten so badly by marciano he was permantly damaged physically, he was ruined from the beating thats why he barely fought again. same with lastarza.

amazing how you try to make it look like 25 year olds lastarza and cockell were not in there primes when they fought marciano

 

Cockell had just as much skill as alot of the heavyweights today, and for a big man he had pretty decent handspeed. he also had alot of heart. while i dont think he was world class, neither are many of the rated heavyweights today.