The importantce of being undefeated.

Although GrovesVsDegale missed Beestons point anyway, I do think that Leonards poor (first) comeback performance (well, poor by his standards and taking into account the opposition) and Leonards intelligence DID lead him to wait for Hagler to have more tough fights.

Then bitched his way through the fight when it happened.

But then, that is another thread entirely:good

 

Its never a simple as that, maybe Leonard would have started to pressure earlier?

 

True.

When people say Arguello came on strong in the last 3 rounds (and Sal Sanchez) I tend to think 'they're not ******s, they would know they had less time'

However, how do we know that undefeated, Welterweight Hearns couldn't have withstood/counteracted that pressure over 12?:hey

 

Yeah he would have done.... Hearns barely had the legs for 12 never mind 15 rounds.

Plus his balance was absolutely gash for someone as heavy handed and skilful as he was.

 

Leonard was poor in the Howard fight and retired bacause of that but just because he then decides to come back years later when Hagler was on the slide (people say that like Leonard was prime for the fight!!) does mean he ducked Hagler.....he was retired and had never even fought in the same division as Hagler when he was active.

Its as disgracefull as Hagler ducking Michael Spinks.

 

HEY!!!!!!!! Leonard was already establishing himself as a man who moved up in weght, Marv was never going to make a 15LB (!!!!!!!) jump up to face a gargantuan like Spinks.

I DO hate Leonard........but I don't allow that to get in the way of me judging him as a fighter. I PRAISE HIM BIG TIME for taking the fight with Marv, regardless of when he took it.

It's the way he went about 'winning' (and yes I intended those marks) that irks me :yep

Monzon DID NOT want any of Foster though :deal

 

Hagler was two divisions above Leonard. There no avoiding anybody. Hagler wanted to fight for the money.

 

We don't, thats my point. As you say, you can't always just take the scores at the end of round 12 of a 15 round fight and say which fighter would have won.

Bottom line: both Hearns and Leonard knew it was a 15 round fight and fought their fights accordingly (or should have!!)

 

Leonard had fought at 154. So that's one division.

 

Agreed, I was only jesting with that last line. A great win for Leonard, but as Rob BRILLIANTLY pointed out in his OP, a fight which elevated the status' of both fighters, regardless of who won and who lost.

That's why Floyd isn't anywhere near approaching a top 50 ATG; he's never had anyone that could truly push him that hard. There is someone now and he doesn't seem to want it. Pac has already faced Elite challenges.

 

How did everyone score Leonard vs Hagler?

As daft as it sounds..... neither of them really won it - Hagler fought the wrong fight and Leonard spent 12 running around and waving to the crowd, interrupted with brief 30 second flurries here and there.

114-114 :yep

 

We should follow Japan's lead - they don't glorify the '0'.

 

Leonard had a grand total of 1 title fight at 154 before he retired, hardly Henry Armstrong material!!

Marvin ****ed up the first 4 rounds and it cost him big time.

 

This:deal

To add another 'if only' (that is totally inconsequential because it never happened) Hagler boxing orthodox for the first few rounds cost him that decision.

 

And they don't acknowledge the WBO:happy

That's a start...........now to dismiss the rest of the titles:deal