The Jack Johnson Vs Tommy Burns Fight.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Fergy, Dec 22, 2023.


  1. Fergy

    Fergy Walking Dead Full Member

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    On Boxing day (how apt), it will be 115 years since the great Jack Johnson ripped the title from Tommy Burns!
    The first Black Heavyweight champion of the world, and probably one of the most charismatic and controversial for many years.

    He had - has his haters, but no one can deny he was ahead of the game in his time.
     
  2. Pugguy

    Pugguy Ingo, The Thinking Man’s GOAT Full Member

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    I can understand people having a problem with the size difference in that fight - but it was so easy for an obviously laid back Johnson.

    Johnson dumped Burns hard, twice in round one - fair to guess that he could’ve ended it then and there or shortly thereafter if he was inclined.

    I know Burns held out for max. $$$ but at least he did defend his title against Johnson at the end of the day. Tommy got about $30,000 for it - huge money back in the day - by comparison, Johnson was only paid a mere $5000 IIRC.

    Tommy took his licks - a very gutsy fighter.

    Being from Oz I am quite proud that the unprecedented title fight was held here - a specially built stadium that morphed into Sydney Boxing Stadium where future fights were held for many years.

    Today, I think there’s only a nondescript plaque identifying the original site of the fight - though I could be wrong.

    I also recall that Johnson spoke well of his time and treatment in Australia.
     
  3. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    Give Tommy credit for facing Jack. Better than a lot of his contemporaries.
     
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  4. Fergy

    Fergy Walking Dead Full Member

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    And Tommy was at least a "world'' champion.
     
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  5. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Johnson said he put up a better fight than Jeffries did.
     
  6. KernowWarrior

    KernowWarrior Bob Fitzsimmons much bigger brother. Full Member

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    It was sad that despite Burns retiring from boxing both healthy and wealthy, due to The Stock Market crash and the Great Depression his weallth vanished, this resulting in him doing menial jobs to survive, later becoming a religious minister.

    On his death he ended up being buried in a unmarked paupers grave, it being only in early 1960s when a sports journalist raised funds for a memorial on the grave.

    Well Mr Burns sure was a 'true' world champion, defending the title from the UK to Australia, France to the USA, against any race, creed or colour.
     
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  7. Fergy

    Fergy Walking Dead Full Member

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    It certainly sounds like it, mcvey.
    He was so overly matched in there, probably knew from the first couple of rounds that he was never going to win, but carried on.
    And Jack was probably taking it out on him, what he had had to suffer those years as a contender.
    So yep, respect for Mr Burn s
     
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  8. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker

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    Burns was a tough guy and a big puncher for a small guy but whatever the times he was very nasty to Johnson, dismissive of Johnson , openly despised Johnson and showered him with racial disrespect going into the bout and got a terrible thrashing because of it ... Johnson was at his absolute best for that fight but added spiteful venom based on how Burns openly treated him ..
     
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  9. crixus85

    crixus85 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Yes, that’s what I’ve read, only a plaque remains. Same, as in Reno for the Jeffries fight. Recall Barry Tomkins going to the site when they were doing a card from there.
    The Old Tin Shed by Terry Smith is the history of Sydney Stadium 1908-1970.
    Published in Sydney in 1999. Well researched book, I enjoy.
    A year earlier, Boxing Day by Jeff Wells, is a terrific read, covering, to my eyes, every aspect of the Burns fight.
    Bearing in mind it was 1908, it’s incredible the run over 2 years previous that Burns had.
    It’s no wonder, I find those days endlessly fascinating, inevitably comparing them with today’s scene.
    Appropriately, tomorrow I’ll watch Ken Burns’ wonderful, Unforgivable Blackness. Especially the special features, not shown on tv.
     
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  10. Pugguy

    Pugguy Ingo, The Thinking Man’s GOAT Full Member

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    Yes, I also have Boxing Day by Jeff Wells, excellent book.

    Burns did alright, didn’t he? Excellent P4P fighter.

    At least Burns also provided one of the more explosive, fast KOS we have on film from that era - his blowout of Bill Squires - perfect advertisement for Tommy’s right hand.

    Ken Burns documentary is brilliant - I’d never seen the 1st round KD of Burns before as well as some other footage - and the Johnson v Jeffries was beautifully cleaned up and slowed down in order to truly appreciate the action.
     
  11. klompton2

    klompton2 Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    Youve still never seen the 1st Rd KD of Burns. The clip shown in Ken Burns documentary was from a later round and the used it again moments later but reversed the image to make it look like a different knockdown. Only rounds 6-10 exist of the fight.
     
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  12. ikrasevic

    ikrasevic Who is ready to suffer for Christ (the truth)? Full Member

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    This kind of physical dominance of a challenger over a champion has rarely been seen. And Jack didn't look like he was trying his best at all. He looked more like he was joking than fighting. He even laughed :)
     
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  13. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    If only @Mendoza were here to remind us of how ill and jaundiced Tommy was, how he broke Jack's ribs in this fight, and how Jack avoided a rematch.

    This content is protected
     
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  14. Pugguy

    Pugguy Ingo, The Thinking Man’s GOAT Full Member

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    Good info. Thanks.

    I remembered you pointed out previously that they reversed the image in Burns’ doco to give the illusion of 2 different KDs - but now you say it wasn’t even the first round - fair enough.

    I can’t recall how many times Burn’s was dropped during the fight - 3-4 times maybe?, I’d have to reread the fight report.

    So to clarify, you’re saying that only rounds 6-10 exist, so that confirms that the round depicted as round 14 round is not actually round 14 - and that they merely edited and stopped the footage themselves to make it look like it was the actual point when the police shut off the cameras?

    I saw footage somewhere years ago containing that sequence when the film stops on most other versions - however the version I saw continues for a bit longer - and even though Burns looks like he’s going down for all money in the more commonly seen edits, he actually doesn’t fall and the fight continues on.
     
  15. JackSilver

    JackSilver Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Burns was the best Canadian world heavyweight champ until Lewis came along more than 80 years later
     
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