the jones jr debate.

THE MONEY!!! Also, he never fought Evander... so we can't really say he was willing. Just because a guy says he is willing or even starts to negotiate the deal... it doesn't mean he is showing up for the fight.

Another thing, styles make fights. Nunn was a great boxer that made a lot of fighters look bad, He made Toney look as bad as Jones did until Toney stopped him late in the fight. Holyfield was only fighting in spurts at that point and Jones was still fast as hell. Again, he never actually fought Evander and I doubt he would have unless the money was too good to turn down!

 

Holyfield turned him down .. It wasn't Jones blowing smoke ..They actually had a sit down .

 

You are implying that he was scared of both of them, but in the end had no choice but to fight Tarver.

 

We know what kind of power he had back then.

We know what happened with Roch and the WBC.

But it's all irrelevant to the question that I put forward.

 

general zod,

We're not talking about a rematch.

If Roy had feared Tarver and he hadn't wanted to have fought him, he WOULDN'T have fought him.

That has to be gross exaggeration doesn't it? He made NO EFFORT?

Your previous link also states that he made no effort at LHW also.

Yet we've seen your links where Brad Jacobs and Kerry Davis tried to negotiate with Peter Kohl to make a Dariusz M fight.

It's very strange that his harshest critics backed him, and O'Halloran walked away from Liles.

In my opinion, it's more a case of Abraham exaggerating, rather than anyone lying.

Are you going to tell me that Roy had no ambition at all, that he was just content on facing easy fighters, and that he didn't have any big fights in his career?

Roy fought on HBO over 25 times, and even when his contract expired, they still showed his fights.

All of the above is irrelevant.

You originally said that you didn't believe that Roy had offered to fight Frankie Liles.

But now you're asking the above questions?

Obviously I don't know the specifics, but isn't it enough that HBO backed Roy and O'Halloran walked?

Is that not enough proof for you, that Roy did try and make the fight, and that he wasn't just content on facing subpar opposition?

As of late, you seem to be trying to discredit Roy at every opportunity. You've posted some great links since I've become a member, but you chop and change things to suit your argument.

The O'Halloran link was originally uploaded by yourself. You originally posted that link last year, and claimed that Roy tried to fight Liles. Yet here you are questioning it?

It was the same with your links regarding Roy fighting Dariusz M. You originally posted those links to prove that Roy and HBO tried to make the fight. Yet a few months ago, you were claiming that Kerry Davis was a liar.

Then there's the whole steroid issue, where you've said things such as 'anyone who thinks Jones was a clean fighter after the Hall fight is deluding themselves'

I've never heard you say things like that before.

You seem to be on a mission to discredit Roy and to argue with me.

I don't get it?

Now in the past, I've admitted that I've been biased towards Roy. But you need to be far more objective.

It seems that you can't give him praise for anything.

But there's no need for it.

Because you're also a great poster, who I've learnt more from than anybody else on this forum, and I'm happy to admit that in my opinion, your knowledge of boxing is superior to mine.

How could he have fought Hill prime?

He wasn't fighting at LHW back then.

You didn't rate Roch.

DM has been discussed to death. Roy wouldn't fight in Germany, and Dariusz wouldn't leave Germany.

So you're going to completely dismiss what Max said, because it doesn't suit your argument?

He wasn't hyping the wins. He just said that he felt Roy received undue criticism.

I've read Abraham's view, and I respect his opinions.

But history has shown us that Roy had big fights, he beat decent guys with ease, and certain fights were hard to make.

 

Great fighter but the same problems as with Floyd's career. Although i think Roy's resume is slightly better and Roy had lesser opposition available. He still did not fight some very good fighters tho. DM is the obvious example. Although both are to blame for that, same as with Floyd Pac. At 160 and 168 he danced around some very formidable competition, although he also did dominate Hopkins and Toney. Jirov and Holyfield were fights he tried to make at either cruiser and heavy. But Jirov fell tru cause of money and Holyfield simply didn't wanted to fight him. He himself didn't want no part of LL.

stil.. i think he should be ranked somewhere around place 30, which makes you a great. Arguably the highest rated fighter on that list since the last 20 years. Although Floyd, Pac and Hopkins are very close and still might do something which takes them higher.

 

You can assume whatever you want.

Frazier was a WBA mandatory. You said that Roy pushed Frazier and Nunn into an eliminator, and that in your opinion, it was a mistake on Nunn's part that he didn't take it.

HBO wanted Roy to unify the titles at LHW with Reggie Johnson, and they were happy with the Telesco fight.

Nothing's ever good enough for you.

Did Roy fight the winner of the eliminator between Tarver and Harding?

Yes he did.

You're making out that Roy wanted Harding to win, and not Tarver. Yet Harding was a huge southpaw, who ended up giving Roy a hard time.

Again, you've also said that Roy eventually took on Tarver because he was low on options.

Go and watch the Clinton Woods fight.

In the post fight interview, Merchant asks him about fighting Tarver who was the legitimate No.1 contender.

Roy said "The only thing that will stop a fight with Tarver, is a John Ruiz fight. But Tarver or Ruiz will be next."

But he went with Ruiz to make huge money and to make history.


You're biased, and will never be satisfied.

 

Nunn was past his best and Liles beat Nunn.

It makes no sense that Roy feared Nunn, but would have fought Liles.

 

He changed his percentage of body fat. He didn't have him gain loads of extra weight.

Read up on what he did with Spinks.

 

I agree.

There was a higher risk, for less of a reward.

If Roy had've beaten him, you could bet your life that he wouldn't have got any credit from the haters.

But does that mean Roy feared losing to him?

I don't think so.

 

It's not just the money.

A guy who feared Nunn, wouldn't want to have fought Evander. (I believe he would have fought him)

It almost happened in 2003, although Evander was obviously past his best at that point.

Of course styles make fights. But Roy wouldn't have been fighting the version of Nunn that fought Toney.

Do you think Roy would have fought Nunn for more money?

I have a hard time believing that a guy who feared Nunn, would have burnt muscle at almost 35, to have fought Tarver.

That doesn't make sense to me.

So again, I think it was a 'higher risk, for a lower reward' business decision.

It's not as though Nunn brought big money or a title.

 

Tarver wasn't in Nunn's class.

 

I agree.

But I'm looking from two different perspectives here.


1. In 1997, Roy was 28 years of age, and Nunn had seen better days.

2. In 2003, Roy was 35, and he had to burn muscle in a short space of time to make weight.


A peak Michael Nunn was a better fighter than Antonio Tarver.

But IMHO, Tarver brought a bigger challenge in 2003.

 

No, I don't think he was afraid of Nunn. I don't even think he was afraid of a well past prime Holyfield. He may have been a bit worried about getting hit by Tua though.

 

He definitely feared losing to Michael Nunn (and with good reason). End of.