The Jones that fought Calzaghe v. the Dawson that fought Tarver - who wins and why?

I agree. I think if he had given his all against Calzaghe in he first couple of rounds, instead of putting on the brakes and fighting to survive, he had the tools to give Calzaghe a very difficult fight.

There's often a disparity like this on ESB because most people buy the orthodox view popularised by "the ESB elite" and follow it like sheep; sometimes rightly, sometimes wrongly: rightly in cases like e.g. Calzaghe v. Jones; wrongly in cases like Darchinyan v. Mijares. I and everyone else fall for it too, most of the time without realising it; it's lazy thinking and cowardice too...and they'll try to bully you if you don't agree with them too!

...who knows, maybe in this case it is I who have it all wrong; what is certain though is that things aren't as clear cut as some would like to have us think.:good

 

Good post, BB! I agree with everything you pointed out. Thanks for doing a bit of independent thinking alongside me. Dawson might very well win easily, but the case is not as clear-cut as all that.:good

 

:huh

Of course not...

I am warning people against cheerleading the received ESB orthodoxy, I am doing my bit for exhibiting the unpopular, other side of the coin, I am trying to pull the brakes on the bandwagons that spring around left right and centre and I am making a stand as usual against the self-proclaimed ESB elite who know it all and who act like they own the place. Time after time I'm doing this, because time after time fights like Casamayor v. Katsidis, Darchinyan v. Mijares, Margarito v. Cotto, Bute v. Andrade, etc. take place and people act soooo surprised when the unthinkable that should have been thought had taken place. Just go back and read some of the predictions that some people made for Mijares v. Darchinyan. If you change "Mijares" for "Dawson" and "Darchinyan" for "Jones", you will end up with the same kind of over-the-top predictions that appear in this thread, for example. For that fight, people didn't even bother making an analysis, because it was so bloody obvious God Mijares was going to take to school and brutally stop the limited, crude B level Darchinyan...wasn't that what the ESB elite had trumpeted for weeks and months? It had to be true...; the fight couldn't possibly be close; the result couldn't possibly be in doubt.:good

What I would like us all, including myself, to do more is think more for ourselves, and think less with out dick and more with our brain. That's how we get better; that's how we can teach each other more, not by recycling ESB orthodoxy or sucking the cocks of the ESB bigwigs and shitting on anyone who makes a different case to signal that we know the score.

 

And Dawson couldn't KO a retired Harding; in fact, Harding floored Dawson...but that's not the point. We're not comparing the Jones that had a sparring session with Trinidad with the Dawson who was learning the ropes against Harding. We're comparing Jones at his best since Ruiz (v. Calzaghe) against Dawson at his best (v. Tarver). Jones couldn't KO Dawson, but he could put Calzaghe on his arse and make his neck one inch longer with a screw uppercut. And everyone knows Calzaghe's chin is much worse than Dawson's, right, so of course Dawson would walk through those punches...

...isn't Jones the hardest puncher Dawson would have faced? Isn't he the fastest and most precise puncher he'd have faced too? Hasn't Dawson been put on his arse 3 times already? Wasn't he out on his feet against Johnson in rounds 10 and 11?

...of course it's likely that Dawson could go 12 and win a wide/close UD. But why is it so unlikely that Jones could KO him? Why should we not even consider that eventuallity? Because we would be betraying Dawson if we even mentioned it as a possibility? Because Dawson's an untouchable great now that he's been proclaimed p4p No.1 by Mayweather, so any criticism is out of bounds? Does Dawson win all fights by default now, just because Calzaghe didn't want to face him? What's going on?

 

:huh Didn't I praise Beeston Brawler off the bat for his analysis, even though it was completely different from mine? Did Beeston, though, not admit that there was a chance Jones could take Dawson out? Yes, he did, but only later... He thought for himself; he didn't cheerlead. By that point there were many people who voted Dawson by T/KO and some posts that proclaimed Dawson's superiority in this contest without saying why, as if it were the most obvious thing in the world. It is only obvious if you come to the table with prejudices. These prejudices are instilled by the big-wigs I was talking about to suit their agendas. Beware of them! They seek to lead you astray! I know because I've been led astray countless times!...And just to show you I play fair: beware of me too...there's no way of knowing whether I have an agenda either (I might not know myself consciously that I do), sometimes...or whether I only seem to have one to counterract the big-wigs' agenda...beware of everyone...think for yourself.