The Kessler who faced Calzaghe V the Lacy who faced Calzaghe ?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by cuchulain, Oct 3, 2010.


  1. Boxed Ears

    Boxed Ears this my daddy's account (RIP daddy) Full Member

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    And that pretty much sums up Lacy.
     
  2. Brit Sillynanny

    Brit Sillynanny Cold Hard Truth Full Member

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    The Sheika v Calzaghe fight was very similar in one respect to Ward v Kessler: there were inadvertent head clashes (late in the Ward fight and two in the first three/four rounds in the Calzaghe fight) for which supporters can make a case for it being impactful.

    Though Joe was the sturdier SMW I actually look at Joe as being the UK's Sheika. Not a significant difference in athleticism or talent. Both guys were decent but neither was extraordinary in comparison to the game's all time greats or undeniably top athletic talent. Put Sheika in Wales at the ice rink fighting the same weak comp but receiving all the support of being a top promoted fighter and he would have had a better and probably a very similar career (after all, none should forget that Joe was (still) pristine by his mid-30s DUE to not having or taking tough fights under adverse conditions - Joe ALWAYS had the promotion (influence on refs, location, judges, timing, preparation, facilities, opponent notification, financial offer, travel, etc., etc. Even then he didn't take a test comparable to the version of Eubank he met in '97 until meeting an ancient BHOP in '08 - and didn't raise the will to meet anyone at all for almost ten years until '06 when Lacy traveled and then '07 when Kessler did the same).

    Against Sheika, Joe had a good start in the highly charged fight but the inadvertent head clashes definitely set the tone and it is always a challenge to fight in front of a hostile crowd as well. Sheika EASILY had the skill set to be competitive with Joe and there should have been a rematch (anyone who thinks otherwise needs to remove the blinders and Joe's stick from their mouth). In such a **** poor division Sheika was certainly someone who would have made for a good battle and return bout (as the ref stoppage on the cut was a bull**** one).

    Obviously with the fight occurring on foreign turf no sympathy was forthcoming from either the ref (regarding the head clashes) and certainly not by the crowd. That fight should have been rematched. Joe was NEVER significantly better than Sheika - and definitely NOT at that point in time. Both were decent athletes (never other worldly) and rather comparable.

    This crazy over rating of Joe is always amusing (the man struggled round after round with David Starie ffs - he would ALWAYS have a tough 12 round fight with Sheika (if not for a fortuitous cut and another of the many quick - leaning - ref stoppages that tended to occur with all too common regularity over his career).

    I wonder how many Calz fans that are among those dissing Ward's performance versus Kessler and have joined the bandwagon attributing an intentionality to the head clashes in that fight have also completely ignored the same developments in the Sheika fight when anyone with a quality cut and a pause button can still go back and watch him shake his head/face after each clash that occurred?

    As for Jeff Lacy, many posts seem to forget a couple things: he was muscle bound beyond reason (and it got worse and worse leading up to the fight with Joe) and he was a short SMW. Boxing has been on a LONG LONG decline in the US and it is not as if Jeff had either a lot of pro fights nor the type of comp (in such a shitty division) to expose his obvious limitations. Europeans seem to have convinced themselves that because they have read some hyperbolic articles and comments about Jeff Lacy that he was somebody over here. That couldn't have been farther from the truth. No one knew who Jeff Lacy was or what he did for a living. That kind of attention has been reserved for athletes in the big three sports INCLUDING college sports for a LONG time - NOT professional boxers (with few exceptions) and certainly not any SMW during this time.

    Jeff was spending TOO much time lifting and working on his upper body (and posing in the mirror one would surmise) and the muscle meant he was actually a rather small SMW (he's sure not the 5'10" as listed) - in stature (he should have been fighting at middleweight). Lacy couldn't move within the lines of an agile fighter and his lack of quickness made for a one dimensional power puncher. Still, he should be credited for being willing to take on the division's best in front of a hostile crowd. He got more than he expected. But at least he (and his management) didn't wait until his 41st fight to develop real stones.

    The luxury of always having optimal conditions and being treated like an ATG allowed certain fighters to be long going concerns rather than being forced into difficult situations before they were prepared or had matured sufficiently. That is a nice circumstance to be in. It actually doesn't happen all that much over here in the past few generations as the sport is simply in disfavor and good match ups are too sparse to be put on a shelf (and so RJJ met BHOP, RJJ met Toney, etc.).

    It is also why certain fighters are rated so highly while others are highly suspect for seemingly too often finding reasons to fight pedestrian comp or fighters coming off of losses and only meeting real talent when it had gotten old (or was ring worn).

    That said, Kessler was/is a good sized SMW and simply the better fighter. Kessler from 2007 would have had the strength, size, leverage, and skill necessary to win a clear points win over any version of JL. OTOH, Kess had 40 fights by the time he met Calzaghe. If we went by the number of fights and put the Kessler from 2001 (with 21 fights - who would have then been equal in ring experience but he would be a non-champion and facing an age or maturity disadvantage of 5 years or so) against Lacy of the Calz fight - perhaps that Kess could have been caught/would have been stopped.