The least skilled ATG fighters

I am unable to see much in Pascual Perez.

 

Bull Strong, Tough & Durable, surely he is not alone among the Champions who also had little or no Boxing finesse or style.

 

If someone says Marciano they’re an idiot. Calling it now.

 

Stanley Ketchel, by a country mile.

 

He does look terrible!

 

I don’t think that’s wholly fair, I’m not trying to fight you on your point or be irksome, I think he even had an aggressive caveman type reputation like Hart in his day, but I’d like to point out a few things where Stanley might seem a bit more then primitive.

First his tripping and off balance punching I’d like to remind you boxing shoes soles were leather back then, they had resin boxes to step into to help retain grip on the floor, a grip which could and would wear over the course of a fight and result in what you’ve seen.

From a stance point of view Stans sound,
he’s almost sideways with his weight off to the right he creates a lot of distance between him and the other guys rear hand at all times - as a byproduct his shoulder remains a serviceable final defensive tool, he can be seen shoulder rolling right hands from Billy Papke who was no slouch himself.

About his defence he gets hit going in a bit, if you’re always in range that’s unavoidable. Having his hands down isn’t so much a critique to me, it shows he has faith enough in his head movement to keep his lands low for countering, a punch can’t properly be thrown with the hands higher then the shoulder and a counter can’t be thrown if you’re blocking. George Benton said it “a man can’t punch and block at the same time”

Ketchel was a very capable Bob and weaver, off of lead jabs he gets outside and simultaneously lands left uppercuts to the solar plexus, left straight's to the ribs and even lands lefts to the liver off of inside rolls. No easy feat.

I never saw any of the highly revered 60s-70s HW land those punches that I know of, would you call them less skilled then Stanley? He certainly threw punches better then Ali, Frazier and Foreman and those were all sort of the last group of guys we’d consider “classic” HW champions and I’ve never seen anyone call them “unskilled” if we had more of his fights in reasonable quality I’m certain his appreciation would grow substantially.

 

Sung Kil Moon.

Strong as a bull and hit like a mule, but I don't see a lot of craft in his work I'm afraid.

Despite this, he's obviously an ATG at Junior Bantamweight. 9 defences and beat some really good guys in the process.

 

Hi Buddy.
Appreciate your very in depth riposte to my assertion that Ketchell was somewhat lacking in skill, I say that because the few films of him fighting do not appear to show a skilled operator, on the contrary, he seems clumsy, off balance, and very crude, in the Johnson fight he looks like a Charlie Chaplin figure at times, long while ago I know, but it's there for us to appraise, you gave a very nuanced breakdown of his boxing attributes, and kudos for that, I struggled a bit to fully understand the expose to be honest, but I will abide by your insight.
The last paragraph where I think you are of the opinion that Ketchell threw better punches than the illustrious trio you named, is a bitter pill to swallow for my part, maybe I misunderstood ? if not that's a bold claim indeed, but that's your opinion and I fully respect it, btw I never have found you irksome, quite the reverse, I enjoy your posts, and you show a deep breath and understanding of our sport, long may it continue, till the next time.
stay safe hombre.

 

Ketchel and Moon were the first two I thought of, though Moon did a lot right in terms of mechanics and had a natural sense of offensive timing.

Chionoi if you consider him a lower end sort of great fighter. Size, power, determination, a great engine and awkwardness.

McGovern and Kid Berg look rough around the edges.

Ultimately though I think it's a bit of a self defeating question.

 

Ketchal, Graziano, and Papke all come to mind

 

Greb.

Sue me.

 

Greb is like a Lovecraftian monster, we just comprehend what we see and it often drives the viewer mad.