The Liston Of 1960 v Ali Of 1964?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mcvey, Nov 9, 2019 at 1:56 AM.


  1. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Sonny Liston of 1960 versus the Muhammad Ali who took his title in1964.
    Does it play out any different?
    Sonny had 5 fights in 60
    Howard King
    Cleveland Williams
    Roy Harris
    Zora Folley
    Eddie Machen
    Only Machen lasted the distance.
    Would a 4 years younger, active Liston do ,appreciably better/win this fight?
    Or does Ali simply have his number?
     
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  2. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Liston would have lasted longer, but I think Ali had his number.

    People make a big deal out of that they were even on the cards after six rds, but apart from the round in which he was blinded Ali was in control throughout the fight. When he upped the tempo Liston couldn't cope with his speed and skill. I think the same would be true of 1960 Liston, but he wouldn't gass out as quickly. Don't think it goes the distance, though.
     
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  3. Ragamuffin

    Ragamuffin Active Member Full Member

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    I could see it going at least a couple of rounds longer, but I think Ali may have to work a little more to finish a tired Liston on the ropes where the ref stops it.
     
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  4. john roberts

    john roberts Member Full Member

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    I think it takes about a round more take away the round Liston tried to cheat with the eye ointment so about the same.
     
  5. Fergy

    Fergy Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Liston would put more into it, he'd look more effective and put a little more pressure on Ali. But it's still Ali winning. I can see it around 8 rounds, Sonny s feeling the pace now and chasing after his man and missing with the jab time after time has fatigued him heavily. We'd see Ali suddenly plant his feet more and rip in to Liston. Sonny would look ten years older now and Alis all over him. An assortment of heavy shots drop Liston and its entirely genuine knock down as the ref counts him out.
     
  6. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I believe Ali was not quite ready at that point in time for a younger hungry Liston. Nice to see you back Mac!
     
  7. Abysmal Brute1981

    Abysmal Brute1981 New Member Full Member

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    I would take this Sonny by a 4 round knockout. A prime Liston beats everyone. Sullivan to Wilder. Just the epitome of the word brute.
     
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  8. 70sFan

    70sFan Member Full Member

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    Ali had the better legs and was faster. Liston would not have seen anyone like him and would have trouble catching up with him and cutting off the ring. Ali by unanimous decision.
     
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  9. robert ungurean

    robert ungurean Богдан Full Member

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  10. timmers612

    timmers612 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I would have liked to have seen the rematch had it not been postponed, the word from those watching Liston's camp stated he had worked himself into a prime condition and was as ready to fight as possible. After the postponement everything changed, Liston seemed to grow very old over night and was stumbling throughout the camp, battered by sparring partners, without rhythm or balance, tripping while jumping rope, etc. Several writers said they couldn't believe he was fighting for the championship in that condition. That Sonny came back to do reasonably well for the remainder of his career is remarkable.
     
  11. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

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    I watched the fight in Miami again recently. Clay/Ali was superb but honestly Sonny appeared to me to be totally out of condition. It looked like he trained for a 3 round fight. Liston was awaful.
    I think '60 Liston goes the distance and loses close. Ali still had an advantage in quickness. Sonny may put Clay/Ali down at some point but he would get up and ralley back to nip it.
     
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  12. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    There's a big chance that after the postponement Liston was told he'd be taking a dive. I'm sure I've seen it claimed in here before. That would definitely explain his sudden deterioration. Don't have to be in much shape to take an early dive.
     
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  13. Ra's Al-Ghul

    Ra's Al-Ghul The One and Only Full Member

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    Welcome back, after three weeks of ban, ... a half year I mean, Tono, errrm Rainer alias Mc....!:buenrollo:
     
  14. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I'd say 60 Liston would have a chance. Clay even at that stage was incredibly elusive and fast tho and he did ship a couple of big blows in the rematch quite impressively. Liston fully fit and in shape would be there for the duration tho. I'd lean toward a Clay decision i think. He's the worst stylistic match up possible for Liston imo.
     
  15. Flash24

    Flash24 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Liston would of course be closer to prime. But the results would be similar, only difference is Liston would get stopped just a little later. Remember Ali was blind a few rds against Liston and Liston still couldn't catch up to him. So a few yrs younger for Liston wouldn't amount to much. Ali would make Liston quit in 9-10 rds as opposed to 7rds.
     
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