The Liston vs Zora Folley "shootout"

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Longhhorn71, Jan 10, 2018.


  1. Longhhorn71

    Longhhorn71 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    The Liston vs Zora Folley "shootout".
    Too bad this fight is not on tape. Maybe the only time
    Prime Liston was under real duress in his career.

    1960-07-18 : Sonny Liston 212½ lbs beat Zora Folley 198½ lbs by KO at 0:28 in round 3 of 12
    • Location: Coliseum, Denver, Colorado, USA
    • Referee: Joe Ullmer

    Associated Press, July 20, 1960:

    Sonny Liston, swinging his sledgehammer fists with devastating fury, knocked out Zora Folley in 28 seconds of the third round after battering him to the canvas twice in the second round of their scheduled 12-round heavyweight fight last night. Liston, 212½-pound slugger from Philadelphia, gave ground in the first round before he unleashed his dynamite-laden 14-inch fists that slammed Folley to the deck early in the second round and again as the round ended. Folley, 198½, of Chandler, Ariz., took nine counts on both knockdowns, the bell ending the second round saving him from the cold, calculating attack that finished him in the third stanza.

    Folley, a polished boxer who had won his last 10 fights—three by knockouts—staged a brilliant rally after the first knockdown. Folley staggered to his feet and battered Liston brutally with a two-fisted attack that forced the Philadelphian to give ground before he unleashed another of his bone-crushing left hooks and right-hand smashes that sent Folley crashing to the canvas on his face. Folley was struggling to his feet when the bell saved him. Handlers worked over him frantically in the corner but the effort was futile. The Arizonan danced out as they started the third only to be caught flush on the jaw by another terrific blow. The Philadelphian set up Folley with a right cross and then decked him with a fabulous left hook—a blow that has held his last nine opponents for the 10 count.

    Notes
    • Liston entered the fight ranked No. 1 in the world. Folley was ranked No. 2 by The Ring magazine and No. 3 by the National Boxing Association.
    • Folley was guaranteed $40,000 and Liston $25,000. Liston accepted the smaller fee in order to make the fight.
    • A crowd of 9,252 produced a gross gate of $77,406.55.
     
  2. Russell

    Russell Loyal Member Full Member

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    Folley must have had some underrated power to go along with his skill... Then again, any skilled man around 200 pounds is seriously dangerous.
     
  3. red cobra

    red cobra Loyal Member Full Member

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    Folley did occasionally display some power..as in when he decked Oscar Bonavena for the first time in Ringo's career en route to shutting him out over the distance. However, I always think of his Siamese Twin, Eddie Machen whenever Folley's name comes up...I can't help it....and though Folley was the only winner in the two bouts these unsung gentlemen had between them, I have always considered Machen to be the better fighter...especially vs Liston (I know I'll get some static from this).
     
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  4. red cobra

    red cobra Loyal Member Full Member

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    Ah @Russell me boy...you got me quickly on this one...do you agree?
     
  5. Russell

    Russell Loyal Member Full Member

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    I do, actually. But I've been privy to lot of talk about Machen over the years on here that has always been very complimentary of him and his abilities. A man that got stuck a bit between two generations maybe, I know he didn't have the easiest career path possible.
     
  6. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra H2H Burger King

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    Whats interesting is liston conceding a pay cut to make the fight happen even tho he was ranked #1 and was the younger fighter on the rise. Thats completely unheard of nowadays. The best used to want to fight the best and prove themselves.
     
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  7. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    No static from me. Although I have always leaned toward Folley, there was really a fine line between these two. I think of Zora as maybe being a little more skillful with a slightly sharper punch, but Eddie having a far better jaw and being a real ring general. If they fought 10 times you could have had a different outcome each time. However, because their styles really didn't mesh, you'd probably have a dozing audience each time and a ring filled with newspapers and rotten fruit.
     
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  8. Longhhorn71

    Longhhorn71 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    "I know I'll get some static from this". Not necessarily compadre. Both appeared to try hard to beat Liston. Folley duked it out with Liston...whereas, Machen created the movement format that Clay used to beat Liston.
    (and both had unfortunate types of deaths at the end of their lives).
     
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  9. jowcol

    jowcol Boxing Addict Full Member

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    The 'twin-sons' agree again. Always thought of the one when I thought of the other over the years despite somewhat different approaches/styles.
    I'll have to watch Liston-Machen again. Many have said Eddie fought just to survive but, from what I remember, he was moving, countering, and getting inside (defensively) when he needed to. Perhaps I've just lost too many brain cells over the years. :(
     
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  10. red cobra

    red cobra Loyal Member Full Member

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    All these posts are great!
     
  11. Longhhorn71

    Longhhorn71 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Machen had a plan. The short film clip version shows Machen getting blasted through the ropes. But
    in reality, the 12 rounder was competitive.
    Once again the accusation of the Liston's corner using illegal medication on their fighters shoulders raises its ugly head.

    1960-09-07 : Sonny Liston 211 lbs beat Eddie Machen 196 lbs by UD in round 12 of 12
    • Unofficial AP scorecard: 118-115 Liston
    • Unofficial UPI scorecard: 115-113 Liston

    In 12-Rounder Liston Is Decision Victor Over Machen
    United Press International, September 8, 1960

    SEATTLE (UPl) — Sonny Liston, who scored a unanimous decision over Eddie Machen in a 12-round nationally televised match here Wednesday night, today continued his cry for a title match with heavyweight champion Floyd Patterson. Machen, who weighed 196, was interested only in a re-match with Liston. "Liston is a good fighter," Machen said, "but he won't knock down any walls. I don't like to alibi, but I hurt my shoulder six days ago in training and couldn't use my right too well. I want very much to fight him again when I have two hands." Liston, the number one contender for the crown, was equally unimpressed with second-rated Eddie. "All Machen wanted to do was go 12 rounds," he said. "He didn't want to fight. I had a bad night." Liston, who at 211 had a 15-pound weight advantage over Machen, went on to say that Patterson "wouldn't last that long with me. He would get in there and fight and I'd get him out." The bout itself was a dandy, with Liston, the plodding aggressor and Machen playing the part of the darting thief, stealing the show occasionally with sizzling left hooks and jabs. There was no doubt about the decision, however. Judges Ely Caston and Sam Haller favored Liston 118-114 and 118-116, respectively. Referee Whitey Domstad scored it 119-112 for the winner and UPI agreed 115-113. The victory for Liston, who was penalized twice for low blows was his 31st in 32 professional fights. For Machen, the loss was his third in 38 trips to the post.

    • The UPI report stated Liston was penalized twice for low blows, but the AP report stated he was penalized only once (in the 11th).
    Notes
    • Liston was the top-ranked heavyweight contender, and Machen was ranked second.
    • Liston and Machen were guaranteed $25,000 each.
    • A crowd of 7,682 produced a gate of $63,660. The television take pushed this above $100,000.
    • After the fight, Machen said he strained the ligaments in his arm while sparring with Willie Besmanoff six days before the bout. "Only my manager and trainer knew about it," he said. "Maybe I could have gotten a postponement, but everything was set for the fight."
    • Machen later said he believed that Liston's handlers made deliberate use of illegal medication in an attempt to temporarily blind him during the fight. He theorized that Liston's handlers rubbed medication on their fighter's shoulders, which was transferred to Machen's forehead during clinches and dripped into his eyes. "I thought my eyes would burn out of my head, and Liston seemed to know it would happen," Machen said. When Liston fought Muhammad Ali—then Cassius Clay—in 1964, Ali returned to his corner after the fourth round and complained that there was something burning in his eyes and he could not see. "The same thing happened to me when I fought Liston in 1960," Machen said two days after Ali upset Liston. "Clay did the worst thing when he started screaming and let Liston know it had worked," Machen added. "Clay panicked. I didn't do that. I'm more of a seasoned pro, and I hid it from Liston."
     
  12. Russell

    Russell Loyal Member Full Member

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    I'm only 29 and I fear this may already be my problem. :hang
     
  13. InMemoryofJakeLamotta

    InMemoryofJakeLamotta I have defeated the great Seamus Full Member

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    I guess if Folley at 198 pounds could hit hard enough to make Liston give ground, we may underestimate how hard old time heavies could hit relative to modern day heavies and underestimating the effects that their punches would have on modern heavies.

    Also, Patterson is generally considered to be a better heavy than Folley, yet Folley put up a better effort against Liston.
     
  14. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Styles, baby. Machen with a very good jaw and who knew how to use the ring to his advantage goes 12 rounds with Liston no problem. Patterson, however, couldn't make it out of the first round on two occasions. Yet, Patterson completely and utterly outworks Machen over 12. Styles!!
     
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  15. jowcol

    jowcol Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Agreed but...barely. As my old black co-worker said many years ago: "Floyd was under a lot of pressure and didn't fight his fight but the 'peoples fight'". There wasn't nearly the pressure on Folley in his fight with Sonny then was Floyd stepping in against Liston...geez, even JFK was weighing in on this one! I personally think Floyd could have bested both Zora & Eddie (9-2-1 & 10-2 in 64) circa 1959; he faced harder punchers then either and that would only leave a 59 Williams-Patterson fight under debate.
     
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