The 'lost' middleweight generation (1987-1994)

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Jel, Nov 2, 2018.


  1. Jel

    Jel Obsessive list maker Full Member

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    After Sugar Ray Leonard dethroned Marvin Hagler in April 1987, with Leonard's immediate retirement and Hagler's extended hiatus (soon to be confirmed as retirement too), the middleweight title was split into three with the WBC, WBA and still recent IBF setting up matches for the vacant titles. The WBO would join the fold the following year but their version of the title would take some years to gain any level of legitimacy.

    Over the next couple of years familiar names such as Hearns and Duran would pick up and drop the WBC version of the belt previously held by Leonard and Hagler before him, but by and large a new generation of 160 pounders emerged to take up the mantle of the next great middleweight.

    But by 1994, no one fighter had emerged and with Leonard, Hearns and Duran legitimising the super middleweight division with their mere presence, it wasn't long before current and former middleweight titlists in the post-Hagler era moved 8 pounds north.

    So what happened to this generation of middleweights? Was it the emergence of the super middleweight class, title politics between the big 3 or a lack of defining talent that meant no one champion or indisputable best fighter came out of it?

    Is there a clear reason why Bernard Hopkins is the only truly great middleweight since Marvin Hagler retired? And was Hopkins even the best fighter of that era or was there another fighter who could (and should) have stamped their name on middleweight history during that 7 year period?

    Champions (WBC, WBA, IBF):
    -Thomas Hearns (WBC: 1987-88)
    -Iran Barkley (WBC: 1988-1989)
    -Roberto Duran (WBC: 1989)
    -Julian Jackson (WBC: 1990 - 1993)
    -Gerald McClellan (WBC: 1993-1995)
    -Sambu Kalambay (WBA: 1987-1989)
    -Mike McCallum (WBA: 1989-1991)
    -Reggie Johnson (WBA: 1992-1993)
    -John David Jackson (WBA: 1993-1994)
    -Jorge Castro (WBA: 1994-1995)
    -Frank Tate (IBF: 1987-88)
    -Michael Nunn (IBF: 1988-1991)
    -James Toney (IBF: 1991-1993)
    -Roy Jones (IBF: 1993-1994)

    Contenders (including WBO titlists):
    -Doug DeWitt (WBO: 1989)
    -Nigel Benn (WBO: 1990)
    -Chris Eubank (WBO: 1990-91)
    -Chris Pyatt (WBO: 1993)
    -Steve Collins (WBO: 1994-95)
    -Herol Graham
    -Michael Watson
    -Bernard Hopkins
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2018
  2. mark ant

    mark ant Canelo was never athletic Full Member

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    Nunn was seen as the successor to Leonard, but started training bad and lost focus resulting in him being knocked out by Toney who became the main man after beating McCallum in a rematch after their first fight was scored a draw, McCallum was dodged by Eubank while he was WBO champ and Mike was the WBA champ, after he destroyed Watson in far better style than Eubank defeated WAatson in their two clashes (the rematch resulting in Watson`s brain injury). Roy Jones defeated Toney in `94 resulting in him becoming the main man, but he move up to super middle. While Hearns was middle champ he should have fought McCallum but was on the slide so would have been beaten, he moved up and fought Kitchen in a dreadful performance which made sure Ray Leonard fought him again because he thought he was shot. Barkley was defeated by Nunn in a split decision in `89 then destroyed by Nigel Benn in a round later that year and before that he was beaten by Duran. Roberto was too old at this point to take over from Ray Leonard as the main man at middle and went on to meet Ray at super middle in a dreadful fight where he was easily out pointed. Jackson was ducked by Eubank while they were both champs, Eubank said after Jackson knocked out Graham that he had no intention of fight ing 'the hawk' at all. Mclellan became one of the p4p best fighters in te world after beating Jackson in `93 but moved up to fight Benn at super middle and was beaten and left brain damadged ending his career. Kalambay was knocked out in a round by Nunn in `88 or `89. Kalambay also lost his title to McCallum in a rematchafter beating the body snatcher in their first bout. Reggie Johnson was beaten by Toney by split decision before he became champ. John David Jackson was knocked out by Castro. CAastro had already been beaten by Norris and Jones before he became a champ. Tate was beaten by Nunn in `88. Doug DeWitt was destroyed by Benn losing the WBO title to Eubank who gave this title up after beating Waatson, then moved up to rematch Watson for Tommy`s vacated super middle title. Pyat was stopped by Steve Collins while he was world champ, Collins gave up this title and moved up to fight Eubank, beating him twice on points. Hopkins eventually simply became better than all of them and for my money eventually became better than Ray was vs Hagler, so there`s your answer in short hand.
     
  3. Gatekeeper

    Gatekeeper Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Nobody dominated the division post Hagler because of the depth of talent - All the top guys in that era were capable of beating each other (and often did). For example I think a lot of fans believe that Mike McCallum was the best MW post Hagler - He beat Curry, Jackson, Watson, Collins, Graham and had two very close fights with Toney but also lost to the unknown at the time Sumbu Kalambay - Kalambay got flattened in 1 round by Nunn who then lost to Toney.
    There are of course other factors that prevented a dominant champ such as networks and promoters blocking big fights from happening - McCallum-Hearns, Toney vs Benn, Eubank etc. etc.

    The depth of the division was unreal during that period and no I don't believe for a second that Bernard Hopkins was the best MW, he became champion just as the names in your list either were getting old or moving up in weight. The MW division that Hopkins inherited in 1995 was a bit of a wasteland really only coming alive once Trinidad moved up.
     
  4. Jel

    Jel Obsessive list maker Full Member

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    Thanks Mark - properly comprehensive answer and history as well!
     
  5. Jel

    Jel Obsessive list maker Full Member

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    Great post - that's pretty much my view too. Tremendous talent in that period that had passed by the time Hopkins became IBF champ in '95 (hence the 87-94 timeframe for the thread).
     
  6. African Cobra

    African Cobra The Right Honourable Lord President of the Council banned Full Member

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    This was not a lost generation at all. Very good fighters some great fighters very competitive many of who will have reigned supreme today!
     
  7. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    So many good middles from that era... a guy as difficult and skilled as Reggie Johnson got lost in the mix.

    Lamar Parks was another who could have added to that depth but checked out.
     
  8. Jel

    Jel Obsessive list maker Full Member

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    No, I didn't really think it was, I just thought it was a good title for the thread.

    It was really an era that unlike the 70s and 80s, didn't have a dominant and long-reigning champion.
     
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  9. Jel

    Jel Obsessive list maker Full Member

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    Reggie spoke highly of Lamar Parks. Reggie himself was a quality, quality boxer.
     
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  10. Jel

    Jel Obsessive list maker Full Member

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    Any other thoughts on that generation of middleweights?

    -Did we miss out on any potential classic fights?
    -Who do you consider was the best of that era?
    -Why were there so few unification fights?
    -Did the creation of the super middleweight division impede on the middleweight division? Or did it fulfill its potential anyway?
    -Any other thoughts?

    Would love to hear more from any of you guys on this as I think it was a fascinating and possibly overlooked period in middleweight history.
     
  11. zadfrak

    zadfrak Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    One thing it does do as a result-----appreciate the work Hagler put in. If you didn't appreciate it before, you should in hindsight.

    He cleaned up on that division for a long time. No if'/and's/or but's. Fought anyone anytime anywhere.

    The follow up guys were definitely not cut from the same cloth of anyone anytime and anywhere.
     
  12. Jel

    Jel Obsessive list maker Full Member

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    I agree 100% with everything you say about Hagler.

    I disagree a bit with the assessment of the generation of fighters in this thread though. I think it was the alphabet organisations that helped maintain the status quo of a split title after Hagler's reign ended. In fact, it was only the WBC title that was on the line when Hagler defended against Leonard because the WBA stripped Hagler of their version for signing to fight Leonard instead of taking a mandatory against Herol Graham. The IBF refused to sanction the fight as Leonard was unranked so I think the title was on its way to splintering even had Hagler got the decision against Sugar Ray.

    I don't think it was a lack of willing by those subsequent fighters to face the best. For example, Sumbu Kalambay was stripped of the WBA title for fighting IBF champ Michael Nunn and then the same thing happened to Mike McCallum when he chose to fight IBF beltholder James Toney. These fighters were actively discouraged and penalised for attempting to meet their fellow champions.
     
  13. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    To me this could be the most stacked period ever in any division. I can't see anyone dominating it.

    They all brought so many different aspects to the table. You hade huge punchers, expert counterpunchers, tricky slickters, athletic freaks, tough brawlers - the whole spectrum. It's more or less impossible imo to be as good against any style to beat all of these guys.
     
  14. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    BS. What fight did for example McCallum ever back away from? Kalambay? They showed themselves willing to test themselves against the best, but as another poster said, they wre being thwarted by the organizations.

    Hagler's last two and a half years as champ wasn't all that. He only fought one challenger who had actually done something at MW before. But even that guy had mostly fought below 160.
     
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  15. GordonGarner65

    GordonGarner65 Active Member Full Member

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    My memory of it was that we had some top fighters here in the UK, Eubanks,Benn, etc but they didnt take on the best from the USA , apart from Benn/ Gerald Mac. Some of the best fights weren't made ? I may be wrong?
     
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