The Lucian Bute Comparison Game

Part 1/2



By Marius Vibe

This content is protected

Styles make figh...ah, I’m sorry.

It’s the single most boring and overused statement in boxing but also one of the truest. That statement alone has caused more quarrels between both fight experts and casual fans than anything else in boxing history. When fighters don’t fight, guesswork is all we have - and even if our eyes are trained to spot the nuanced skills of the fighters we observe and our minds expertly honed to predict the outcome of a battle in the ring, we may still turn out to be dead wrong. And that nasty “Styles make fights” expression is left hanging in the air.

This is at the core of what I call “The Lucian Bute Comparison Game.”

Everyone who knows about IBF super middleweight titleholder Lucian Bute knows his career and label as one of the top super middleweights in the world is a constant (but also evolving) source of controversy.

This content is protected

To make a long story short, Bute was not a part of Showtime’s “Super Six World Boxing Classic” tournament and he’s been paying for that choice ever since. Some argue that he wasn’t even asked to join the “Super Six”; others point out that he actively put himself in a position where he couldn’t be asked to join, thus cherry-picking his way through title defences while the top dogs battled each other in the most interesting tournament on the airwaves.


Now Bute is ranked number one by The Ring magazine and number two by BoxRec.com, to name but two that have infuriated the Bute critics out there. He’s even rated higher than Carl Froch, who’s run one of the most grueling gauntlets in boxing from 2008 up until now.


And the criticism is valid, in part, because, after all, what has Bute achieved? Who has he beaten? Lucian Bute arguably can’t point to the same quality of victories the other top-ranked super middleweights can. Is he better than Carl Froch? Don’t know – he hasn’t fought him. Is he better than Mikkel Kessler? Don’t know – he hasn’t fought him. Is he even better than hammer-handed middleweight Arthur Abraham? Don’t know – he hasn’t fought him.


So then, we’re left with that nasty guesswork – “objectively” appraising Bute’s skills as a fighter and trying to pit him against other elite super middleweights. But “styles make fights” and we’re lost again, unable to arrive at any conclusion.

What if we take it one step further though?


Lucian Bute hasn’t been compared to one other fighter; he’s been compared to a whole group of fighters who were part of a tournament. So maybe if we look at Lucian Bute’s fights and find all the common opponents he shares with everyone who was in the “Super Six,” something interesting will emerge. Maybe a pattern, some clues to Lucian Bute’s worthiness of being mentioned in the same breath as Andre Ward, Froch, Kessler, Andre Dirrell, Abraham, Jermain Taylor, Glen Johnson and Allan Green?

(And before you get all worked up, it’s just for fun. It’s not scientific. You may even learn nothing from it. This is “The Lucian Bute Comparison Game.”)

Willard Lewis

Allan Green and Lucian Bute both met the unknown Lewis, seven months apart in 2004. Lewis stood the full eight against Green but later got blasted away in three by Bute.

Bute: TKO 3 – Green: UD --- Edge: Bute

So what?: Against a nobody like Lewis, all bets are off. These guys are inconsistent and are more likely to be caught with something stupid. Besides, Green fought Lewis at cruiserweight while Bute fought him at 175. Nobody knows what difference that made.

Dingaan Thobela

The tough South African met Mikkel Kessler first in 2002 and Bute in 2004. Thobela went the distance – all 12 rounds – against Kessler but Bute sank him by TKO in the fourth.

Bute: TKO 4 - Kessler: UD --- Edge: Bute

So what?: Both Kessler and Bute caught Thobela when he was old and shot, in the middle of a seven-fight losing streak at the end of his career. That’s hardly a basis on which to draw conclusions. Besides, Thobela is 5’7½” and Bute fought him at cruiserweight! He hardly could’ve been in the shape of his life.

Donny McCrary

Another unknown fighter who had the “honor” of being fed to two top super middleweight prospects with hardly more than a year apart. Bute got him out faster than Green.

Bute: KO 4 – Green: TKO 6 --- Edge: Bute

So what?: First, it’s ancient history. Second, a two-round difference in KOs hardly matters. Third, the “nobody factor”, as described with Willard Lewis, still stands.

Andre Thysse

Thysse was a bit more of a solid opponent than the previous three, having been the South African and the Commonwealth super middleweight champ. He faced Kessler, who ground him down to a TKO in 11 rounds, in Denmark and Bute in Canada while in the twilight of his career. Bute was unable to finish him but shut him out completely.

Bute: UD – Kessler: TKO 11 --- Edge: Kessler

So what?: The guy was only knocked out twice in 28 fights and both were extremely late stoppages. It’s not like Kessler annihilated Thysse in one and Bute looked like crap.

Sergey Tatevosyan

The former Russian super middleweight champ faced – as most people have – Lucian Bute in Canada and got completely shut out. He got a grand total of two rounds scored in his favour from the three judges. It got even worse when, two months later, Tatevosyan went to face Carl Froch in Nottingham. There, he couldn’t stand upright for a grand total of two rounds.


Bute: UD – Froch: KO 2 --- Edge: Froch

So what?: Bute faced Tatevosyan right after the Russian knocked out and humiliated Rudy Markussen (then 33-1-0) in his native Denmark. That was a strong win, making Sergey a potential danger. Froch faced a fighter who, just two months earlier, got handed a one-sided beating for 12 rounds. Talk about fighting leftovers.

Sakio Bika

One of the physically strongest super middleweights out there, the former participant on the TV show “The Contender” remains a challenge for anyone who wants to leave a mark on the super middleweight division. Bika is a tough lump of muscles, forehead, fists and elbows.
Now here it gets kind of subjective but anyone who’s seen both fights should see that Bute, then 27, handled the 28-year-old Bika with relative ease. Andre Ward did not. The 26-year-old Olympian had a hard, nasty night with 31-year-old Bika, never mind the horrible 120-108 and 118-110 (twice) scores. They were more like 116-113.

Bute: UD – Ward: UD --- Edge: Bute

So what?: Everyone who knows anything about Andre Ward knows he’s a chameleon; he has the ability to adapt to any style he chooses. He is also in an experimental phase of his career. What Ward did against Bika was test himself and his physical capabilities against a big, strong man. Actually, selecting a more difficult route to make a point and expand one’s own craft is what makes Ward’s performance vastly superior to Bute’s.

 

Part 2/2


William Joppy

I have nothing new to offer by discussing Joppy. Bute took him out in 10; Jermain Taylor beat him up over 12 one-sided rounds.

Bute: TKO 10 – Taylor: UD --- Edge: Bute

So what?: Old points again. Bute fought Joppy at 168, Taylor at 160. Bute needed 10 rounds, Taylor shut him out completely over 12. Taylor got Joppy four years fresher.

Librado Andrade

Andrade is always interesting and a valid, super middleweight top 20/gatekeeper, much like Sakio Bika. This rugged, Mexican pressure fighter has been known to generate all kinds of trouble for upcoming fighters with championship ambitions, most notably Robert Stieglitz – who was steamrolled by Andrade for a round eight TKO loss back in 2008. This troublemaker factor came in full effect when the Mexican met Lucian Bute in his next fight. Bute was knocked down in the 12th and final round and, controversially, was given a very long count, allowing him to survive and win a unanimous decision. “Robbery!” cried most observers. This decision was nothing like the one-sided beating Mikkel Kessler gave Andrade in Denmark the year before, when the Dane made his opponent look like a bobblehead over 12 rounds. He could never stop him though and Bute later became the first and only man to KO Andrade in their eagerly awaited rematch in 2009.

Bute: UD*/KO4 – Kessler: UD --- Edge: Kessler

So what?: So Bute was down – big deal. Maybe he could’ve made it for all we know. What was painfully obvious was that Bute had a bad day at the office and once he pulled himself together, he showed he was truly in a different class than Andrade. The fourth round KO is the most impressive performance by far, thus making Bute the more impressive fighter.

Edison Miranda

This mercurial puncher has faced a lot of solid names in a turbulent career spanning several weight classes. Many of his opponents have gotten a really rough night. In 2006, he broke the jaw of then- middleweight titlist Arthur Abraham, forcing the champion to endure the fight of his life to keep his IBF title. The year after, Miranda moved up to 168 and thoroughly beat 23-0 prospect Allan Green. In 2008, he rematched Abraham and got knocked out in four before facing the man who is now on top of the super middleweight division, Andre Ward, in 2009. As with so many others, Ward scored a UD victory. Finally, in 2010, Miranda traveled to Canada to face Bute and suffered a particularly humiliating TKO loss in the third round.

Bute: TKO 3 – Abraham/Green/Abraham/Ward: UD/L UD/TKO 4/UD --- Edge: Bute

So what?: 1) Abraham got his jaw broken (or at least made worse) by Miranda’s intentional headbutting. 2) Green was ill when he lost. 3) Abraham’s TKO win was just as good as Bute’s. 4) Ward is no KO guy – so what? And 5) Bute got Miranda old and shot. Next!

Brian Magee

The British champion and now WBA interim world champion has enough toughness and determination to make life difficult for anyone who faces him. Carl Froch needed to work hard for 11 rounds to stop him and the hard-hitting Bute needed 10.

Bute: TKO 10 – Froch: KO 11 --- Edge: Bute

So what?: As always, Bute gets them older and more shopworn. Five years older this time! And there’s only one round between the KOs. Froch’s win is better.

Glen Johnson

This is kind of a special case since the “Road Warrior,” Glen Johnson was actually part of the “Super Six” tournament itself and thus should be counted as Bute’s most bona fide opponent up until now. The 43-year-old is one of those fighters who seems to have faced everyone in his day, giving most pure hell for the duration. Johnson entered the “Super Six” as a late replacement and the old man, who hadn’t fought at 168 in 10 years, started off by knocking out Allan Green in eight rounds. It took Carl Froch a rough night and a decision win to end Johnson’s dreams of a final. Bute faced him five months later and won an easy UD.

Bute: UD – Green/Froch: L TKO 8/MD --- Edge: Bute

So what?: That majority decision was a disgrace. “The Cobra” beat Johnson handily and laid out a blueprint for Bute on how to win. Thanks, Carl. Also, Johnson didn’t have the drive anymore after being eliminated from the “Super Six.” It was like shooting fish in a barrel.

Final score: Lucian Bute vs. the “Super Six”: Bute 8, Super Six 3.

Like I said earlier – there may not be a conclusion to be drawn from this. There may not be a point but I’m wondering if it’s just a coincidence that Bute so decisively comes out on top when there are so many points of comparison between him and the tournament participants. Doesn’t it at least say something about consistency? A distinguishable pattern? Doesn’t the fact that there is such a large span of years, weight classes, countries, styles, etc. make Bute’s victories count for more, not less, when we sum up all the variables?

I was actually supposed to write this article before Lucian Bute faced Glen Johnson and my plan was to predict that the massive dislike of Bute’s conduct would automatically invalidate his performance against Johnson, should he win (or to put it bluntly, Bute is so unpopular in many fans’ eyes, they’d rather dump on his opponents than give him credit). Lo and behold, Johnson was the talk of the town after he beat Green - “rejuvenated” even - and Carl Froch praised the his toughness after their fight. But when Johnson lost to Bute? Old. Faded. Worn out . Exposed by Carl Froch.

I wonder how often this has happened before, discrediting Bute’s performances. How many observers have truly stayed neutral and observed Lucian Bute’s skills without an agenda?

Either way, “The Lucian Bute Comparison Game” will be rendered obsolete on May 26, when Bute travels to Nottingham to face not only a top “Super Six” contestant but ex-World Champion and finalist Carl Froch. It’s one of the toughest tests imaginable. Everyone who watched Froch’s “Super Six” fight against Andre Dirrell in Nottingham may easily draw the conclusion that you have to knock out Froch to get a win on his home turf- and that’s a tall order against a man who’s hardly been down in his pro career and never out. Surely, the day has arrived when boxing fans finally get to see the true qualities of the highly rated Lucian Bute.

And what if it hasn’t? Already, I can hear the arguments neutralizing a Bute victory, no matter how convincing: “Froch is almost 35 years old.” “Froch has fought seven hard fights in a row.” “Andre Ward exposed Froch.” I sincerely hope that will never happen to a fighter of Froch’s caliber – but if it should happen...well, then I just have to extend my article until Lucian Bute receives the beating many boxing fans have been waiting for or hangs up his gloves, undefeated. Then we’ll all get to discuss who would’ve won between Bute and Joe Calzaghe or Bute and Sven Ottke. Who knows?

Styles make fights.

 

This needs a buuuuump!

 

I like Bute these days...He got that ass beat by Andrade in the first fight though.

 

Interesting thread and a nice read. Thanks for the hard work OP.

 

thanks man , interesting read ! Basically Bute beat these guys better than his competition/main rivals did:yep.

To be objective I think Bute's next fight against Froch is gonna be much harder/difficult than we expected. Not to mention about a fight against Ward , which will be the supreme test/challenge for Bute.

Yea , as a fan of Bute I've said that Bute's gonna T/K.O Froch but this was a very biased opinion from me and probably I'll say it . We will wait and see what is gonna be ! :yep

 

What ****ing fight were you watching?

Bute was ahead on the scorecard at the time of the "controversy."

Honestly the first Bute-Andrade fight has passed from reality to lore, and I often wonder if half of the folks who opine about it actually watched the fight.

 

Fun read.
Nice thread.

Nothing bad to say..

Juts maybe this (nothing big..):

"Abraham got his jaw broken (or at least made worse) by Miranda’s intentional headbutting."

Miranda would not have break an egg with this "headbutt".

Abraham condition was caused by punches.

An uppercut did the most damage if memory's correct.

 

Yep.

Also, it should be noted that Bute used bigger gloves against Tatevosyan to protect one of his hands and that he fought Bika 4 years before Ward, when he wasn't champ yet.

Besides that, good job by the author.

 

good stuff man!! I think it's obvious that Bute is an elite fighter and he's gonna show what up vs Froch.....the most telling fights for me have been the Bika and Andrade 2 fights.

 

This needs shortened. Who cares about so much damned conjecture, especially now that the Froch fight is made? Questions will be answered shortly. In less time than to read through all that crap. :deal

 

:deal

 

Do you mean KO2?!

 

Did you count that as a point for Bute?

 

No, that's a point for Froch according to the author.

That was pretty clear reading the article.atsch