The Madrigal Of The Krusher: His Fistic Syncopated Polyphonic Symphony Of Destruction.

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by CST80, May 20, 2016.


  1. qwertyblahblah

    qwertyblahblah Boxing Addict Full Member

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    CST80:
    Isn't your ****ysis of Kovalev mostly making the point that his strengths are well suited to nullify a counterpuncher? But Ward isn't strictly a counterpuncher. Against predictable boxers he loves to counter, but he has a greater bag of tricks at his disposal than counterpunching to use against Kovalev.
     
  2. Nopporn

    Nopporn Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Good argument! qwerty

    But I still think that Ward will get beaten by Kovalev. The latter hits so hard. Ward might be stunned by Kovalev's power punch.
     
  3. bandeedo

    bandeedo Loyal Member Full Member

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    precisely. i think thats going to play a big role in the outcome of the fight. if ward is successful and makes it an inside fight, all the wrestling and tying up is going to tire out wards gym muscles faster than they will kovalev. that might not make a difference in the first half of the fight, but in the second half, one fighters reaction time is going to slow just a bit faster than the other one. and if hes not successful, then kovalev just needs to trade any chance he gets. with his reach and power advantage, he stands to get the better of it.
     
  4. Kevin Willis

    Kevin Willis Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    You guys would be more inclined factoring in how Ward will not get drug tested while Kovalev will be subjected to round the clock testing. The Mayweather/Pacquaio screw job all over again.

    In a fair fight Kovalev beats Ward up and stops him.
     
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  5. iamtheman

    iamtheman Well-Known Member Full Member

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    What proof do you have to make that claim?

    As if PED use outside of competition does nothing... Drug testing in boxing is a joke.
     
  6. CST80

    CST80 De Omnibus Dubitandum Staff Member

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    This might be rambling, I just woke up...sorry in advance.

    Maybe you're underrating Kovalev a little too much, Hopkins isn't the easiest guy to land on clean, yet Kovalev managed to land more leather on Hopkins than anyone in Hopkins career, and Hopkins was the same old Hopkins in that match, he hadn't aged over night, the only problem was he was afraid to let his hands go out of fear of a Kovalev counter.

    And its no that Kovalev has fought to many guys who "let" him fight the pace he wants, he forces them to fight the pace he wants, they have no choice due to their fear, Ward will be no different.

    Whether you guys want to admit it or not, his power is a really really really big factor here, maybe Ward can diffuse a lot of his offense, but still Ward getting tagged on the arms, shoulders and glancing blows, all that will start to pile up and eventually that will take a toll as well.

    Ward will not be brave enough to try to get on the inside, he fought one of cleanest and most cautious matches of his career against the very limited Barrera out of fear of being outmuscled or roughed up, and still as little as Barrera tried and as little as he landed clean he still managed to land 111 shots and had Ward looking the worse for wear, Kovalev is better than Barrera by a mile, so I'm sure he'll land just as much if not far more clean, and with Kovalev sometimes it only takes one shot, Ward's chin is better than most think it is, but I highly doubt its Pascal/BHop level sturdy.

    And like said in the OP if Kovalev can't outbox him and gets frustrated, he'll go all out, and that will freeze Ward up and send him into safety first defense mode, he won't let his hands go, he'll only try to survive, like he did with Froch in the 12th.

    And what if Kovalev forces the pace, when Barrera finally tried in the 11th and 12th Ward looked very uncomfortable, what if Kovalev starts in the 7th or 8th?:think
     
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  7. Braindamage

    Braindamage Baby Face Beast Full Member

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    Very good assessment, almost brilliant! I would say it was brilliant, if not for the fact that none of Kovalev's foes have been near the level of Ward! This is the variable your theory fails to address. like all theories, they are just that until they are tested, the Titanic, the Twin Towers both had theories that the information fully supported, until they got hit! Let me reiterate, Ward is by far Kovalev's bets opponent, just as Kovalev is Ward's! Kovalev may be able to do all the things you mentioned to Ward but, Ward may be able to take away a lot of, if not all of Kov's strengths! Would you be surprised if he did? I wouldn't, just like I wouldn't be surprised if Kov does KO ward. These are the best of the best, the cream of the crop! This is a pick'em fight! With the skills that Kov has, coupled with his power he is doing exactly what he should be doing, against the level op! Ward is more than a full step above what Kov has been facing. It's easy to look good against guys you are better than. You mentioned music, well do me a favor. Listen to Stevie ray Vaughan's best song or solo, listen real good and long. Many people, experts even, say he's one of the greatest, if not the greatest blues guitarist ever and I would tend to agree. After you listen to that, put on Carlos Montoya, the famous flamenco guitarist. Then you will hear what a truly great guitarist is all about! Against other blues guitarist, SRV was a force to be reckoned with but, up against Carlos, he will need to sit down and take notes. So the question remains, is Kovalev a Stevie ray Vaughan or a Carlos Montoya? Hopefully we get Carlos Montoya against Andreas Segovia.
     
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  8. BCS8

    BCS8 VIP Member

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    Another master post by CST :good
     
  9. qwertyblahblah

    qwertyblahblah Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I appreciated your breakdown of Kovalev, and do favour him, just not confident he dominates, though big props of course if it happens.

    Look at the guys Kovalev's fought. I'm not saying they're not legit contenders, but they are all mostly basic outside boxers: Campillo, Cleverly, Sillakh, Pascal. None of them in any fight fought inside like Ward has, smothering the opponent's power and using angles. Kovalev has had way more opportunity to establish his pace and rhythm against previous opponents than he will against Ward.

    Hopkins was a very good win, but come on beating Cloud, Murat, and Shumenov the way he did showed he wasn't the guy who beat Tarver. Point being that Ward's speed and reflexes aren't comparble to Hopkins. He has the athleticism to implement more than Hopkins could against Kovalev. Like the post above this, I'm pointing out that Kovalev hasn't fought anyone like Ward, as much as Ward hasn't fought anyone like Kovalev.

    Yes, Ward did stick to boxing Barrera on the outside way more than he has in past fights. And didn't look too good when he brought the fight to him. If that means he'll avoid fighting Kovalev on the inside I think he's giving up his best chance. Inside boxing doesn't necessarily rely on strength, nor is it strictly standing in the pocket, and if Ward realises he needs to stick to an inside game he'll try to, as risky as it might be. The alternative is covering and waiting while Kovalev fires and fires. What kind of fight do you think Ward should fight to give himself his best chance?

    By the way, I don't rate Ward's chin as highly as you do. He's managed to avoid getting hit solid in most of his biggest fights, but I think is hiding a vulnerable chin and likely responds no better than he did early his career when he was almost stopped if Kovalev hits him with just one solid shot.
     
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  10. Above Deck

    Above Deck Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I enjoyed the read. Thanks.
     
  11. Rumsfeld

    Rumsfeld Moderator Staff Member

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    Very good read. I'm not convinced that Kovalev is as difficult to figure out in terms of rhythm as you seem to suggest, but I'm not convinced he isn't, either.
     
  12. Nopporn

    Nopporn Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Kovalev will beat Ward by decisions rather than a stoppage. Ward is a slick boxer so he cannot be caught easily.
     
  13. CST80

    CST80 De Omnibus Dubitandum Staff Member

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    Dawson-Hopkins I scored similarly to IB 117-111, however most of those rounds were 60-40, 55-45 type rounds a match can have 12 razor close ugly ass rounds that all go to one fighter, Dawson had a bad style for Hopkins. In theory Kovalev's style was tailor made for BHop yet he dominated him in 12 mostly 90-10, 80-20 type rounds. A far more dominant performance regardless of the final scores. And you can throw out Compubox numbers all day, the fact remains when Kovalev wanted to, he landed 38 punches on BHop in the 12th round, more than anyone has ever landed on BHop in any round of his career, and Kovalev didn't even do that out of frustration, he did because Hopkins stuck his tongue out.:lol:

    And if Kovalev lands 111 shots on Ward, that might be all it takes, maybe even half that many will do the job.:deal
     
  14. CST80

    CST80 De Omnibus Dubitandum Staff Member

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    Nopporn, Goose, BCS8, Rummy, Above Deck. Thanks for reading this colossus and for the nice comments.:thumbsup
     
  15. CST80

    CST80 De Omnibus Dubitandum Staff Member

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    Actually I would say Hopkins and Pascal were near the level of Ward, let's not pretend like somehow Pascal was shot at 32. Regardless, you could almost say that his wins over Pascal and Hopkins were at or near the level of Ward's wins over Kessler and Froch, I'm not entirely sure Mikkel or Carl could have beaten Hopkins then or the version Kovalev faced, and that's not me denigrating Kessler and Froch, just stating the facts, Hopkins is borderline impossible to look good against and win cleanly over. And Pascal and Froch went toe to toe landing bombs on each other, it was close to a draw.

    So an argument could be made that Kovalev is Ward best opponent to date as well, so like you said this is a pick 'em fight, and I'm clearly picking Kovalev.:D But Ward somehow figuring out a way to beat Kovalev is not out of the question.

    I like SRV, I used to listen to him a lot when I was younger, but he isn't the blues guitarist IMO. And if Kovalev is as good as I think he is then it will be Carlos Montoya against Andreas Segovia.