The Magic of Mike Tyson with Emanuel Steward

Exactly. I'm not so sure Tyson's height (or lack thereof) was a weakness. For his style and body type, I think his height was perfect. Had Tyson been 6'4", I don't think his style of fighting would have worked too well. He'd have been more of a classic straight-up boxer/puncher. He wouldn't be able to spring up at a taller opponent and attack from underneath.

 

Exactly, i don't think the meaning of the message has neccessarily been taken right.

 

It was disgraceful

but i can understand why Tyson did it, thats when he entered 'the world is against me' mode and began acting like a dick until Lewis put an end to his misery.

Holyfield, has butted all his career, yet the crowd were still cheering for him in the first fight with Tyson, he keeps talking about the Holy Spirit and tryin to make Tyson seem the bad guy, obviously hes going to win over the american audience, Tyson simply snapped.

I rewatched the fight recently it was a tough fight, Holyfield was ahead by the 4th round, however Tyson was pretty much still in the fight.

Round 5, Tyson starts working the body (something he should have done in the first round) lands some uppercuts, commentators talk about Holyfield being tired, if Tyson really put his foot down, he could have had Holyfield out of there, instead, he slows down (possibly because he was out of gas)

Round 6 begins more of the same, Tyson seems to be stronger....then, low blow by Holyfield, headbutt by Holyfield, KD by Holyfield and Tyson wasnt the same for the rest of the fight.

Theres also a clip on youtube somewhere with Holyfield landing the same 'combination' on Dokes.

Holyfield is a cheat, with possible steroid abuse allegations, Tyson biting his ear was his come uppance in a way. I wished the second figh was allowed to continue because after the bite Tyson seemed to fight much more aggressive. It was probably a mixture of fear, adenaline and rage

Think of that what you may, but Tyson could have beat Holyfield in the first fight, he just needed to work more on the basics and his stamina.

I think a pre prison Tyson would have walked right through Holyfield. IMO Tysons punch resistance wasnt the same after prison, possibly due to not enough good sparring. Tyson walked through Ruddocks punches, 91 would have been a longer version of the Spinks fight, Tyson had no respect for Holyfields punch power. Look at their actual fight, Holyfield threw everything but the kitchen sink and still couldnt KO Tyson, Tyson was more tired than anything else.

 

Coulda, woulda, shoulda, the fact is Holyfield was far too good. He had an answer for everything Tyson came up with. Tyson just wasn't good enough.

IMO your post is massively biased toward Tyson at various points.

Tyson more tired than anything else? He was reeling, and reeling bad. Another 30 seconds and he would have been smashed. He didn't know where he was.

Can't see Tyson ever beating Holyfield but it's certainly not carved in stone. Holyfield had some traits that would have always held him in good stead.

You say Tyson could have had Holyfield out of there. When did Tyson's punches ever show any great affect on Holy? You talk about Holyfield not hurting Tyson tho he had him drunk and stopped him, but what about the flipside? Holyfield soaked up many clean bombs from Tyson and came back with his own many times.

Tyson was gawn second fight, part of the reason he went the chomp. IMO he dogged it. If he stayed aggressive Holyfield would have just ended his night all the faster.

Still cannot fathom Tyson pre prison "walking right thru" Holyfield.

 

Well that wouldnt be too hard, considering all Tyson was throwing was a left hook and overhand right over and over again.

I stated my opinions, ive also given Holyfield his dues in previous posts

Holyfield could stand and throw at Tyson all day, he wasnt going down.

I never said Holyfield COULNDT beat Tyson. Once again i stated my opinion that pre prison Tyson (who was much better conditioned) would probably walk through Holyfield, when they DID fight in 96, it was Tyson who had lost much more than Holyfield.

You need to watch Round 5-6 again. Tyson landed some good punches on Holyfield in that round, if hed worked on him a bit more he would have had Holyfield out of there.

Mentally Tyson was afraid of Holyfield in the second fight however, after the bite, it was Tyson pushing for the action, IMO he levelled the playing field, If holyfield was using headbutts.

I can, as i mentioned before, Holyfield IMO doesnt hit hard enough, hence why in their actual fight, he had to throw in a few headbutts because he knew his punches werent doing the job and as mentioned before, how many punches did he throw at the end which barely moved Tyson.

I dont have any agenda against Holyfield, ive also made good posts about him, but recently ive felt he is slightly overrated.

 

Rooney-Tyson beating reckless Holyfield of the 80's - yes, that's possible.

To walk right through Holyfield - don't think Tyson or anybody can do that.

 

He wasn't getting a chance to do much else. Take note of Tyson's reluctance to throw his beloved uppercut - there were reasons for this.

I respect them, they are plausible tho a bit less likely.

That's just silly. He was completely defenseless at the time of stoppage and was undeniably going to hit the floor if the fight went on. This is undeniable. Holyfield wasn't throwing powderpuffs. Tyson had already been sent reeling the round before and had not even recovered. This wasn't from tiredness, he'd been mugged.

you're talking about Tyson, the 20-1 favourite over Holyfield right? Holyfield had lost 2 of his previous 4 bouts and was thought to be well past it, more so than Tyson. He may or may not have been but there was a reason Tyson was so crazily favoured.

I watched it 24 hours ago in it's entirety actually. Tyson wasn't good enough and did not have the capability you ask for. You could bring up 200 fights where if fighter A could have only went a bit harder at junction x he would have won. didn't happen, for a reason. I'm still not convinced it would have helped Tyson anyway.

You're all but quoting Steward there.

IMO the second bite was to take the easy road out of the fight, but i respect your opposite opinion. It's certainly up for debate.

Holyfield hurt Tyson substancially at numerous times in the bout. The guy is a formidable puncher and this was proved vs Tyson. Gosh. Tyson has a great chin and Holyfield sent him reeling a few times including to the point of defensiveless at the end. Barely moved Tyson? He was on cloud 9.

It would have been majorly ugly if the ref didn't save his ass. Seriously.

Again, i respect your opinion. You can argue almost any great fighter is underrated or overrated and put forth a decent argument.

I've got a high opinion of Holyfield. He proved himself over a long time vs excellent opposition. Tyson burned brighter for a shorter time, Holyfield had his downs but also had many ups over a big period of time.

 

When i say walk through i dont mean, KO him in one round. But he would utterly beat him pillar to post for the majority of the fight, however long it lasts.

 

I'd say it would have been more like hard fought clean decision win for Tyson.

 

spinks was too scared to leave the dressing room. you don't say LOL.

 

I agree with you here. In 96 Tyson was getting back into the fight until Holyfield pulled some, ahem, dirty tactics. Tyson fought less than 8 full rounds after a 4 year layoff. So Holyfield wasn't prime himself, he still never took a 4 year layoff. Pre-prison Tyson beats him. Prime for prime Tyson beats him emphatically.

 

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QTVHCFOtcM&feature=youtube_gdata_player"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QTVHCFOtcM&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/ame]

:deal

 

Tyson with Steward would not work that well.

 

its funny how some Tyson supporters still talk about the holyfield headbutts.
tyson himself has admitted now it wasnt headbutting that bothered him, it was the fact that holyfield was BETTER at butting than him ! (also, holyfield was just tougher than him at that stage of their careers, lets face it)

c'mon, no one here, fans of holyfield, or fans of tyson, or fans of both, can claim that one is a dirty fighter and the other one isnt. they both solid pros with a lot of talent who knew and used A LOT of rough foul tactics. their whole careers.