The man that beat the great Ali in the FOTC weighed 205lbs

Frazier was a pure endomorph, who achieved a remarkable feat in getting down as light as he did for matches like JQ I, Ellis I, and the FOTC. But he was around 250 pounds when he first took up boxing as a teenager to lose weight. Even at his lightest competitive weights, his thighs reportedly measured 27 inches. (The clincher for his decision to take up boxing was that he was having trouble fitting his legs in his pants.)

Check Joe out in a swimsuit on the platform before nearly drowning in the pool during a segment of the inaugural 1973 Superstars competition. Between the chest and knees, he's a thick, solid slab of flesh. (And despite never having touched a barbell in his life, and displaying clueless form, he actually finished second in the weightlifting competition to eventual Superstars winner Bob Seagren, and nearly muscled up the 170 pounds he eventually failed at, coming so close that Jim McKay had to ask, "Did he do it?" Doubly impressive, because Joe couldn't straighten up his left arm to lock it out.)

He weighed about 230 for the draw with Cummings, and nearly 225 for the Foreman rematch, giving some indication of how much he might weigh if competing today. He was strictly a natural heavyweight.

 

I take it a little differently, in that I think Ali would have much, much more of a struggle with the Lewises and Klitschkos than people care to face up to. He did struggle with guys who would be consider smallish or small today.

 

Yeah, but Joe Frazier still was over 200 pounds and was tight and well tuned at 205 pounds.... Frazier of '66 to '72 was a working machine... He is truly one of the ATG ringers of any division....

Ali from '64 to '67 was the best ever in my book without doubt.... Ali at 6' 3" tall and around 212 pounds was good sized, fleet-footed and savvy as all hell....

MR.BILL

 

Ali not havng a traditional "defense", was vulnerable to the short left hook that a small man on the inside could deliver.

Of course Norton neutralized Ali's jab via his own jab.

 

But that´s not an indication that he would struggle with bigger guys. Smaller guys are faster, more mobile and better coordinated than big guys. They pose completly different problems due to that. Look at Joe Louis. He had some problems with smaller, faster fighters like Conn but absolutly annhilated the big guys - the Baers, Carnera.

Sorry, but that argument isn´t a good one.

 

I'd hardly say that Ali suffered a BAD beating from Frazier. That makes it sound one sided.
When it comes to the elite in days gone by,their comparative smallness when lining up against the Klitschkos ans suchlike,would n't have been much of a problem. Haye suffered because he could n't cope with Wladimir's style,rather than size differential.

 

I love angelo but im reading hs book and he cannot be trusted on height's. he listed himself at 5'8''!!!

 

Ali himself trained as low as 199lb for the 1966 fight with cooper but he was a big man.

Haye is built up. he takes a size 9 shoe and is not 6'3'', hes about 6'1''. He has a roy jones build.

 

The opponents who gave Ali the most grief was often smaller, the exception being Norton who was about the same size. Ali had problems with pressure and workrate rather than size stylistically. He didn't have much trouble with the giants of that time.

With that said, I think Wlad would beat him in a similar fashion to how he beat Haye. Not landing very much (hardly anything), but keeping Ali at a distance and forcing the action. Wlad is just so good at this.

I love Ali, but boxing has evolved. Yesterday's giants were slow, uncoordinated and lacked stamina. Wlad, Lewis, Vitaly etc are different animals altogether. I think Bowe at his best would give Ali a torrid time as well.

An Ali born in the early/mid 80's would be a different prospect, though. He would in all likelihood be bigger and even more explosive. But that's really stretching this hypothetical scenario very thin. For me, it's quite enough what Ali actually did. Against oppositions of great quality as well as great variety.

 

Nice humour there. :thumbsup

 

I agree. Wlad beating Ali is a hilarious joke, one of the best I have heard in a long time.

 

I'm one of the biggest Ali fans on this forum and don't like Wlad one bit, but I can't see how Ali would beat him. I just don't think his in-and-out boxing would be succesful against someone with that size-advantage and expertise in getting the most out of it at range.

I think Lewis would beat Wlad, and Tyson and Vitaly would have a good chance. Perhaps Bowe as well. Other than that...

Of course this is all very hypothetical, so pretending to be certain any which way is kind of foolish. But I doubt that will stop any of you.

 

Frazier was in insane condition at 205 pounds though. Even at 215 he was still putting in a lot more work in the gym than a lot of today's fighters do. Not saying David Haye doesn't but I imagine fighters like Povetkin and Chagaev could be a lot lighter than they are.

 

If Wlad would have had a better mentallity, a better beard, more inside game other than hugging´n´leaning you´d have a point.

Over the past few weeks I defended Wlad a few times. I like that guy. He´s a great person, a great sportsman and very good at what he´s doing. Apart from the last part, nearly the opposite of Ali - yeah, I won´t pretend that I like him, I don´t. So´, it´s not that I´m biased. I don´t think Bowe or Vitali are able to beat Wlad - why I pointed out in another thread, I think the Louis-Wlad one - Lewis and Tyson would stop him. And Ali would do too. Tell me, which of Wlad´s opponents brought anywhere the footspeed of Ali? Right, none. Not even close to it. Handspeed, well Haye is fast but it´s still a longshot away from Ali´s. Yeah, he´s good at keeping people away from him but him beeing good at that is just half the reason. The other half are his opponents who don´t know how to get past by a decent jab - and of course that Wlad has not only a size but also a style advantage over his best opponents, Byrd, Chagaev, Ibragimov, Haye, all natural counterpunchers. See what Ali did with a big guy with a decent jab: [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DefCmUsCPs[/ame]
about 2 minutes in. But you probably know that even better than me anyway.

Of course Wlad´s better than Terrell, he punches harder and is about as fast. But he also has a much lower workrate and slower feet. It would be competative early on but Wlad would tire out from the pace Ali would set and Ali´d dominate him from the midrounds on and stop him around the 11th.

Sorry but size, a good jab and range game and power isn´t enough to beat Ali at his best.