The man that beat the great Ali in the FOTC weighed 205lbs

That's fair enough then. Quarry was though even as a cruiser good enough to beat fighter like Ron Lyle and Ernie Shavers. For me Haye hasn't shown he could beat men like that.

 

What about Witherspoon?

 

I don't rate Jerry Quarry terribly high either, but I reckon he'd eat David Haye for breakfast.
Haye's record lacks .... how should I say ..... lacks ... wins over good fighters ?

 

Perhaps not. You never know. Haye is much faster and more precise than those men were, though, and a better boxer IMO. But let's not derail the thread.

 

Yes fair enough I was just thinking maybe I was derailing it a bit.

Really I suppose i was just discrediting haye when he was being used as an example of a small man against Vlad, don't even think it was you who made the analogy.
As you know it's all about styles.

 

:good

 

Haye is a good cruiserweight. Very big for the weight. A great heavyweight might be composed of such things as physicality, mental strength and craft. Haye has too little of everything in the big league.

He isn't versatile. He doesn't have good workrate. He doesn't have a complete offensive arsenal. He isn't good on the front foot. He doesn't have a good chin. He doesn't punch in combinations.

What he has is good handspeed, good power, good reflexes and the plan of drawing punches and countering with single fast hard shots.

I definitely rate Jerry Quarry, Shavers, Chuvalo, Machen above him, both in h2h and resume.

He has the best chance against Shavers, and the worst against Chuvalo.

 

Most of this thread looks like it has been taken up with a Wlad v Ali h2h discussion.
I don't know if Haye v Lyle etc. would be a derailment.

I think the OP was intended to just open up discussion on how much HWs have increased in size/weight over the last 40 years, but I might be wrong.
It's all kind of relevant to that though/

 

Agreed.
He simply hasn't proved himself much at all at the highest level.
He's a legit heavyweight, or a big enough cruiser to straddle the divisions.
He's just not proven good enough to merit comparison with most these names.

I do believe he's coming off his most credible performance though ! Going the distance with Wlad is his career highlight, even if he looked out of his depth most of the 12 rounds.

 

:good

 

Haye looked a bit like a 46 year old Holyfield in there with Valuev.

Granted, Haye's isn't flat-out bad and he stacks up okay against the cream of Wlad's crop.
I can't put him any way better than the likes of Quarry and Lyle though, he's not really worthy even in that company yet .

 

Comparing Vlad and Terrell is ridiculous. Ernie was tall, but skinny and not nearly as skilled as Vlad.

But there's no point in debating with Ali fans.

 

exactly. I watched holyfeild fight the same fight against valuev that haye fought and not get the decision. hell I saw Larry Donald totally school valuev and not get the decision. Point is there is no mileage in giving a veteran the nod in a close fight, haye was the first young guy who did what others did only the judges went for him because he was a new guy. We were all keen for haye to be the next big thing because we all know the division needs a new star but haye really wasn’t anything more than a washed up holyfeild or old Donald. we all hoped he wouldn’t be but he was. It was a game effort but DAVID has not truly paid his dues at HW and he is past 30 already!

 

I think Wlad is hard to beat no doubt due to his size, his athletism and the way he boxes behind that jab. To beat him you've got to be a big powerful heavy like Lewis, can't see Wlad surviving in a fight with Lewis like Vitali and it would turn out like that if lewis felt he was getting outboxed. I think some smaller, fast powerful fighters as well like prime Tyson and Holyfield. As for Ali, I think he might struggle, styles. I think the smaller 60's version of Ali would have the better chance.