The man that beat the great Ali in the FOTC weighed 205lbs

Or they bulk up muscle because they know they have to. That would be my guess.

Toney is the one I can think of who mostly bulked up with fat. But it's not like he was consistently succesful.

Ps. Spinks also bulked up.

 

For what? They don´t get more power from it. They don´t need it on the inside since they don´t fight there. For what? On the other hand they get slower and tire out more quickly.

Just some fashion trend.

 

Some of the talk of "natural" and non-"natural" lean weight / size doesn't really hold up.
I mean, we are all products of our training (or lack of it).
Boxers certainly aren't necessarily ever fighting at a "natural" weight or size to them.
Of course, we have a certain frame and bone structure.
But on top of that we have muscle and fat, which depends on training and lifestyle choices.

I don't understand why some people think certain weight-training systems of training are somehow more artificial than other forms of training.

 

Nah, I think Holyfield was better at 210 than he was at 188. Just a more formidable fighter.
Stronger, more powerful, more rugged, harder to push around.

Buddy Baer seemed to think Joe Louis was better for coming in at 207 than 202, in their two fights respectively.
Louis noted a few times that he came in too light in several of his peak fights.
Weight makes a difference.

 

Of course it does. But look at Haye for example. Against Klitschko he came in the lowest in all of his hw fights. There is a reason for that.

And yeah, they are all results of their training. In this case the result of a training with the goal to gain weight. I don´t think most hws profit from this and do it nevertheless.

 

They do get more power from it and you always need strength (and chin) in boxing.

Going on 25+ years. My guess is that they would know better than you what makes them more competitive and what doesn't.

 

:goodWhen you're good, you are good.

 

So when guys like Spinks and Holy bulks up and are succesful it's just a fashion trend that doesn't really work, but when Haye reduces mass without having succes there's a good reason for it?:huh

 

Haye says he never even weighed himself, just came in shape - which is sensible. He was actually lighter against Harrison, I believe.

Of course, guys who just come in heavy for the sake of being heavy are not going about things the right way.
But for most good fighters who are hovering around the 200 pound area, adding some muscle to register a decent 210+ pounds is not a bad thing at all, if they have the frame to carry it. It helps.

 

Either you have poer or you don´t. Gaining weight may affect your power but the result isn´t worth the disadvantages.

So, bulking up suddenly improves your chin? :huh Yeah, you need strength but it´s always a question efficiency, is the gain in strength worth the loss in speed and stamina? In the past they decided against it, today for it. 12 rounds may have to do something with it, nevertheless I think many fighters would be better of with a few pounds less.

Not necessarily. I´ts a bit more complicated too. We are back again in a training discussion. There´s too much focus in training today on athleticism and weight-training. A basic athleticism is important and weight-training can be very beneficial for boxers if used right but it seems to me that boxers spend more time training their body than their skills. It should be the other way round.
And, yes, that is some kind of fashion, some zeitgeist.

When you move up it maked sense to put on some muscles - to a certain extent you need to find a balance between the positives and the negatives. I guess that´s why Haye decided to go back from 222 to 210 and why Chambers decided to come in lighter too between Povetkin and Wlad.
I think Spinks was fine at around 200 pounds, Holy was fine between 210 and 215, same for Moorer, Haye around 210. Heavier would do them or did them not much good.

Nah, he was the same weight against Harrison. I think they figured out his best weight at hw where his speed, power, strength and stamina was most balanced out.

Imo it´s about finding the weight where those 4 attributes are best balanced out. If it´s 200, it´s 200 and 210 wouldn´t be beneficial anymore. It´s different with every fighter of course.

But look at today´s hws, many put just on weight for the sake of it. Arreola, Chambers, Peter ...

 

Well,there haven't been 15 round fights for the heavyweight championship a quarter of a century now.

 

And you know this how? Several top class pros obiously disagree with you and can show the results to back it up. I think I'll trust their expertise (and that of the trainers and fighters at my gym) over yours.

Of course it improves your chin if you add muscle. You think Hearns was as chinny at CW as he was at WW? If you add muscle at the neck and shoulders (as you will do through many of the standard exercises) it helps absorb the impact of a blow.

Also that sports science has evolved better techniques for gaining strength and power whithout decreasing speed and stamina much.

Again where do your insights stem from? If you were right the division should be dominated by 200 lbs fighters. Unless you mean to tell me that all the pros and pro trainers out there don't know how fighters should be trained, but you do. But that actually seems to be what you are telling me.

 

Yes, but they had bulked up in muscle to reach that weight.

It's interesting to note that when Holyfield shed some weight for the first time after moving up to HW was also the first times he lost, a loss he avenged after putting on a sizeable amount of weight again.

 

I said this, and much of your other points, on this forum about 5 years ago to another poster with chronic Little Man Syndrome.

 

Good ole sage JG hail) had something very interesting to say to say to me about this in a thread last July. Check out these post exchanges:

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showpost.php?p=7235422&postcount=17

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showpost.php?p=7236216&postcount=20