The Manassa Mauler-Jack Dempsey (July 4,1919) vs Sonny Liston (March 21,1959)who wins

Balderdash.

size - Liston
brute strength - Liston
punching power - LISTON
chin - LISTON
stamina - Dempsey

favorite in fight - LISTON, heavily.

 

This thread was done like a month ago or so, no offense Sardu, i understand you think highly of both fighters, however the respsonses you will get from majority of the posters here will be very one sided and biased against Dempsey. I mean people make the likes of Michael Spinks, Jimmy Young etc a favourite over a peak Dempsey, so what chance will he have of beating a peak Liston? Lol

 

Liston either knocks him out early or jabs the **** out of him en route to a TKO victory.

Bad matchup for the Mauler.

 

Tunney put Dempsey down. Firpo put Dempsey down. Sardenburg reportedly put Dempsey down nine times in one round, abeit back in 1915.

Who put Liston down before 1965? Marty Marshall did -back in what '54? He didn't go down again, legitimately, for 12 years. Liston was bigger than Dempsey and I would argue that he had a better chin. Was he toughter? I doubt it. But his skill set exceeded Dempsey and not by a little.

 

I was actually getting ready to argue on Dempsey's behalf against Tyson. And I'm writing from Boston.

 

That's Boston, MA -USA, not England.

 

Short left hook, uppercut or straight right?

I mention these punches specifically for stylistic reasons ... how do you see it panning out or does it go the distance with the judges deciding the winner?

 

Liston TKO4.

 

Liston has the physical advantage in every category mentioned with the exception of stamina and speed, and perhaps punching 'effectiveness' as was mentioned. He would have to be heavily favored against Dempsey.

Would he beat Dempsey? Now that's a different question.

As stated, I was going to argue on behalf of Tyson over Dempsey. The reason is two-fold. The first is that it annoys me when the untried and untested out here on ESP just pick "their man" with no argument and by devestation. The second is that Tyson, though a devestating puncher and I think the most devestating puncher in HW history, was an insecure child between the ears. Dempsey was as tough as a man can get... he was a teenager fighting in those old "smokers" and challenging anyone in a barroom to a brawl. Unlike John L., this ass-whipper was 130 pounds. His money shot then was a left hook to the body.

I truly believe that men were tougher then. And the Mauler was a hobo who had to fight and win to eat. Tyson better get him out early or else Dempsey could very possibly tear away that Man Facade layer by layer and round by round until the child underneath is exposed.

Liston was tougher than he is given credit for out here. He suffered in his life and not a little, and he had the misfortune of getting caught in Carbo's net and it isn't like you could walk away from that. Liston had character and I don't see him wilting under the Dempsey onslaught. Liston was demonstrably composed under fire from larger men who hit harder -like Williams particularly. Dempsey's strange weaving style out of a low crouch was complex stuff. He pivoted very well and found angles to throw everything in every shot. It is not easy to cope with and I don't see Liston's jab as much of a factor.

Liston would have to bull him backward and catch him with short uppercuts, which were Dempsey's stylistic vulnerability. His face was hanging out there parallel with the canvas. The sparring match with Bill Tate tells us much. Dempsey's style was incredibly effective in my opinion against boxers... against physically superior guys like Liston, Dempsey may not be allowed his requisite forward motion. Liston, unlike Tate here, would not be moving backward.

Many people think that Tunney simply outboxed Dempsey. This is not altogether true.. sure, he stepped around him and out of range and put together combinations, but Tunney was most effective when he was coming forward and Dempsey was going backwards. He was able to land his shots because Dempsey wasn't as defensively or offensively sound when not being aggressive. Much like Tyson. Tunney's plan resembled Holyfield's against Tyson.

I'd have to say that Liston would likely hurt Dempsey enough to either stop him or take a decision.

 

Firpo did not hit as hard as Cleveland Williams. Firpo had only a rudimentary understanding of how to punch.

Dempsey was a hard man in a hard time. What is boxing if it is not a character sport?

Liston was pushing 40 against Leotis. Dempsey wasn't fighting after he lost a step with age. But he did go down 9 times in the first round against some no-name called Sudenberg, albeit when he was 20.

And Liston's chin is not overrated, it's woefully underrated.

I have great respect for Dempsey's style, but it was one-dimensional and based on aggressive and evasive forward motion. It worked very well for him, but it had holes and simply didn't work if he wasn't coming in. Liston was better-schooled.

Although Dempsey gets an undeserved bad rap these days, he was nowhere near the level of skill of Duran. Duran was a brawling pressure fighter, a puncher, a boxer-puncher, and a counterpuncher as the situation required. And his defense was excellent.