The Manassa Mauler-Jack Dempsey (July 4,1919) vs Sonny Liston (March 21,1959)who wins

Some ringside observers say that the chopping left that broke Tunney's nose in 2 places was an intentional headbutt. That could have been it right there. Was it possibly a legit shot? Yes, but Greb wasn't a puncher, so who knows. Kid McPartland was the ref and he was warning Greb throughout the fight for holding and hitting, butting, cuffing, etc. but he did nothing else.

Anyway, it's hard to fight when you nose is shattered in the first 15 seconds!

If you tease it out, you can also get to 3-1-1 or 3-2 for Tunney.

For the rematch, Greb was mourning the iminent death of his wife -whom he loved. Meanwhile Leonard himself stopped by Tunney's camp and gave him some tips -one was to go to the body. Tunney was getting over a flu and was exhausted in the middle rounds but finished strong and started stronger -with a body attack that forced Greb to grab and seemed to take his wind out a few times.

A survey was taken at ringside after the fight of writers by the NY Herald -4 had Greb winning, 4 had Tunney winning and 5 called it a draw. Hype Igoe was probably the most renowned writer at the time in NY and he stated that Greb rightfully lost because of his constant dirty fighting -butting, clinching and holding, holding and hitting, etc, and that Tunney was the one landing the most "honest" shots.

Greb? He said "I was jobbed."

Refs were reluctant to penalize Greb as much as he should have been. He was dirtier than Fitzie and Golota put together and I think that he intimidated the refs. He had fanatics in the crowd too and Greb was known to attack refs who did call him on his extracurricular ring activity. Remember also that back then there wasn't exactly a premium placed on body punching. So much of Tunney's work downstairs was overlooked.

Three clearly went to Tunney, no argument there. The fourth was considered a draw in the newspapers, and the fifth went clearly to Tunney by my estimation. Most boxing writers gave Tunney 7 or 8 of the 10 rounds because of Benny Leonard's sage advice.

Have a party because that fight is a beauty. Perhaps the best since Manila.

 

It was in the first 15 seconds! It was a bloodbath after that. This may be the best example in history of the boxer being destroyed by the swarmer. I still have a problem with the incorrigibility of Greb and the ref's allowances when it came to dirty tactics.

That is not "historical data" -that is opinion. And the opinions are split depending on the sources.

No one said they did. The point was the ref may well have felt intimidated by the roaring crowd and/or by Greb's reputation. Greb was indulged, and that is beyond dispute. He would have been disqualified today for more than a few bouts if he didn't make adjustments.

Sure, maybe.

 

You're minimizing Greb's behavior. It was obnoxious even for the time and is why his repuation was what it was.

That does not apply to Tunney -who rarely fouled or complained. The most he did against Greb was toss him to the canvas a few times in the rematch when Greb clinched.

I would look at the most credible writers and not simply take a count or every backalley rag that covered the fight. Part of the reason why I do not believe that the "newspaper decisions" back then are reliable sources is because it was common practice to pay off writers for favorable coverage or get ignored. Tunney learned this the hard way earlier in his career.