The Moore vs Johnson rivallry/ Harold Johnson Appreciation thread

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by GPater11093, Apr 25, 2010.


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  1. GPater11093

    GPater11093 Barry Full Member

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    Watching Harold Johnson today, I was thinking for me he is definitly one of the best Light Heavyweights ever. But Archie Moore, another great Light Heavy, convincingly beat him in a series and established a dominance over him.

    Now this got me thinking, now the bouts were fairly close but Moore was clear in his victories over Johnson, how was Moore so dominant over Johnson?

    If you threw any other Light Heavyweight great, I do not beleive they could tackle Johnson four times and only come with a single defeat. But it does give us a thought, maybe Johnson isn't quite a great Light heavyweight and maybe is just a smidgen below the true Greats like Moore? Or did Moore hold a stylistic advantage?

    Also add debate on arguably the most important Light Heavyweight rivalry, in terms of two greats of the Light Heavyweight division.
     
    GPater11093, Apr 25, 2010
    GPater11093, Apr 25, 2010
    #1
  2. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    If i've read this right, you think that every other light-heavy in history would do no better than 2-2 versus Harold?
     
    McGrain, Apr 25, 2010
    McGrain, Apr 25, 2010
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  3. GPater11093

    GPater11093 Barry Full Member

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    Actually, no, I went a bit over the top. I would expect very few to beat Johnson 3 out of 4.
     
    GPater11093, Apr 25, 2010
    GPater11093, Apr 25, 2010
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  4. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Archie Moore beat Harold 4 out of 5. You counted wrong.
     
    SuzieQ49, Apr 25, 2010
    SuzieQ49, Apr 25, 2010
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  5. turpinr

    turpinr Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    what about ezzard charles, bob foster and michael spinks
     
    turpinr, Apr 25, 2010
    turpinr, Apr 25, 2010
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  6. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Just checking, I know you are high off him, was only making sure you weren't actually snorting his ashes :lol:

    Moore edges out Harold in certain areas that make it a very difficult fight for Johnson; power, counter-punching. Johnson is an absolutley exceptional counter-puncher, but he doesn't have Moore's learned feel for bringing you on to something. I'd describe Moore's counter-punching style as more interactive. What I mean by that is, he messes your **** up, he traps, baits, feints with a view to buying an actual shot rather than space or time. Johnson's counter-punching contains those elements, but overall he's looking for a shot, more reactive. In a sense, Moore brings more pressure, both literal and implied. I can see why he would pretty consistantly pick of Johnson for this reason.
     
    McGrain, Apr 25, 2010
    McGrain, Apr 25, 2010
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  7. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    What was the story behind fight #6? There was an additional fight that was supposed to happen between them when Moore was champion, but it did not come off, you know the details?

    Or anyone else?
     
    McGrain, Apr 25, 2010
    McGrain, Apr 25, 2010
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  8. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    Moore has the far better defense, better timing, more efficient and great power.

    Charles at his best would certainly be my pick to win a series against Johnson, he arguably beat Johnson past his prime after all. Jones and Patterson too with their speed advantage
     
    PowerPuncher, Apr 25, 2010
    PowerPuncher, Apr 25, 2010
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  9. GPater11093

    GPater11093 Barry Full Member

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    oops yeh, I cant count. You must have some thoughts on this, you are the resident Johnson expert.

    I think him and Charles would be fairly even. Actually after watching Johnson's fight with Billy Smith I could see Foster and Spinks KOing him as there type of punches would catch him IMO.

    :lol::lol:

    Good post. So you would say Moore had a stylistic advantage?

    Also, just watching the fight with Billy Smith, how durable do you think Johnson is? I think he is fairly durable but Smith took him out with one punch.
     
    GPater11093, Apr 25, 2010
    GPater11093, Apr 25, 2010
    #9
  10. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Wow. I didn't know that fight even survived. Smith certainly was a banger.
     
    McGrain, Apr 25, 2010
    McGrain, Apr 25, 2010
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  11. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    More efficient? I can't think of a more effecient fighter than Johnson, at any weight. Not that Moore isn't up there in this regard, but if I was pushed I would see Johnson was the more economical of the two.
     
    McGrain, Apr 25, 2010
    McGrain, Apr 25, 2010
    #11
  12. GPater11093

    GPater11093 Barry Full Member

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    I have it on DVD, I will try to get it uploaded to Youtube. Pretty chuffed when I seen it. Just out of interest what Johnson is out there? I have vs Doug Jones, Willie Pastrano, Eddie Machen, Paul Andrews I & II, Clarence Ford, ? King, Billy Smith, Von Clay, Ezzard Charles & Marty Marshall.

    Basically, Johnson is outboxing Smith as you would expect, but Smith manages to back him up onto the ropes by stepping forward. As he steps in Smith drops his left shoulder, as to 'show' a hook, but swiftly comes back with a right straight onto Johnson's chin. Johsnon doubles over then kind of runs in slow motion, whilst falling, to the other side of the ring and gets up at about 11 or 12 but he was gone.

    Beautiful punch by Smith, set it up perfectly with a feint and as you say he could bang, as it was pretty much the first punch he hit Johnson with.
     
    GPater11093, Apr 25, 2010
    GPater11093, Apr 25, 2010
    #12
  13. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Wow. I would dearly love to see that. Upload it if you can, like you say!
     
    McGrain, Apr 25, 2010
    McGrain, Apr 25, 2010
    #13
  14. GPater11093

    GPater11093 Barry Full Member

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    Will give it ago, might take a week or two to do though.

    Have you seen the Jones fight? would you say it is a better performance by Johson than the Charles fight?
     
    GPater11093, Apr 25, 2010
    GPater11093, Apr 25, 2010
    #14
  15. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    For me it comes down to the opponent. Even past his exquisite best, Charles is still better than Jones, and I can't help but be swayed by that. However, it is six of one and half a dozen of the other, really. I know my2sense and I think GreatA plump for the Jones fight, and I certainly wouldn't argue with that. You?
     
    McGrain, Apr 25, 2010
    McGrain, Apr 25, 2010
    #15
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