The Most Overated Fighter

Have I not made my position perfectly clear on Frazier enough on this forum? I've explained time and time again why I believe Frazier is as grossly overrated a fighter as he is.Having a legacy that is sorely dependant on that of another fighter and cherry picking his way around the division are merely just a few reasons.

 

Cherry picking? That's some funny stuff. I don't see how you can call him overrated but you have your opinion, no disrespect.

 

I can see why you might look at it that way, but I don't agree.

I have to pull you up on the idea that Frazier was cherry picking for a start.

Who should he have fought instead of the opponents he met?

 

I feel the Palomino shot, but the others I don't get. Duran was great in #3. He was very polished, stick and moving well and countering Esteban perfectly. I'm assuming your rationale has more to do with DeJesus' condition in fight II and III(and therefore its' quality as a win/performance)?

 

Ali.

Foreman was not fighting like his normal self. He also trained for a short match.

Had Ali not had those loose ropes or been able to hold behind the head I have a feeling Big G would have knocked Ali out.

Ali Vs Liston.... Probably his best win if you consider the bouts Legit

Ali Vs Norton.... Norton has a case for winning 2/3

Ali Vs Frazier.... Great fights but Frazier won the biggest one

Ali was a great fighter indeed. Just not the greatest in my opinion


Foreman crushed them

 

That definitely plays a part, but I thought the Duran of the rematch was pretty much the quintessential version of him. Outside of being dropped early on, he pretty much got the better of the fight throughout, moreso the further it went along until he was really putting a beating on De Jesus. Some of the stuff Duran does in there is just unreal. As a fight it's by far the best of the bunch as well. Never seen Duran more savage than in that one.

His performance in the third fight is tame by comparison, even if it was a more controlled, technical display.

 

If only Dejesys had used some lateral movement like a slick black fighter would have,

 

Khaosai Galaxy gets ridiculously overrated in some boxing forums. Never mind the fact that he fought only in Thailand and had poor oppositions but I've watched some of his fights and I never figured out why he is rated so highly. He's obviously a good puncher but his skills just seems too crude and lacked technical skills.

 

Two fighters that tend to get rated as near demi-gods in terms of h2h fantasy fights, and p4p status Mike Tyson and Mickey Walker, respectively.

But I'm not as inclined as some to dismiss the comprehensive losses that Tyson suffered as simply a case of him being past his prime, and think they should be taken into account when thinking of how he would compare against other fighters in the past. And...As for Walker, I'm not as inclined to go utterly ape-**** over Walker's heavier weight excursions when, at the same time, he was sometimes struggling to defeat some of the better fighters who resided at or near his natural weight.

 

De Jesus was woefully out of shape in the rematch, his camp wanted the fight delayed due to his condition and his dad was dying of cancer. The searing heat took its toll too and he wanted to quite the fight many times throughout but was forced on by Greg Benitez.



But of course, it's only questionable when Duran or (insert other legend here...) is out of shape. I forgot the rules of Classic Forum. :yep

 

Out of shape? Hadn't heard that before. I know he was a drug user, but it didn't really seem to affect his performances. I've seen the fight many times and didn't notice any sort of troubles with his physical shape or the effort he put out. He looked like De Jesus to me. Not as sharp as in the first fight perhaps, but then that was his career best performance.

As for the heat, well, I'm sure you know the Joey Maxim quote.

 

I do know the Maxim quote and it's a fair one. The point there was that the intense heat would affect a fighter out of shape than one as finely-tuned like Duran that day. This was no "after the event" excuse either as De Jesus's camp had publicly tried to delay the fight leading up to the contest as they felt Esteban wasn't ready mentally or physically. Duran doesn't have Exclusivity Rights on a poor training camp y'know.

 

Yes he does. He's Duran!

Anyways, I'd have to assume the whole uproar with his camp had to do with their attaining knowledge of his drug use. It was supposed to have been around this time that his escapades became known, but who knows how long it had been going on? I'm guessing his people were just shook up by the news, and he wasn't necessarily in any worse of shape than he usually would come in. Again, the fight certainly didn't show it.

 

A little les aggressive than your earlier post

Ok. so if you concede Ali was ahead after 7 1/2 rounds, how did foreman 'beat the hell out of him for many rounds' as you claim?

Also, if Foreman was not fighting like his 'normal self' then thats his fault (i dont know how you can come to this conclusion anyway cos George only knew 1 way to fight- KO the other guy).
If Foreman trained for a short fight then,again, thats his fault (also shows a lack of professionalism)

In your opinion, which we're all entitled to, you say Ali is top3 and thats fair enough. So do you think foreman is at least the 2nd best ever heavyweight if not the 1st? Care to elaborate?

Not nitpicking here mate, just curious

 

Ill give my current top 10, These are based on many factors

longevity
H2H
Timeline
Competiton

Including all 4 factors ( the list changes quite a bit if you Just use one) plus including by own bias and personnel likes

1 Joe Louis
2 George Foreman
3 Ali
4 Rocky Marciano
5 Jack Dempsey
6 Evander Holyfield
7 James Jeffries
8 Joe Frazier
9 Jack Johnson
10 Vitali K