The most unbeatable fighter ever..............

I dont think Pea and Oscar are on the same level historically, nowhere near, in h2h sense, the gap is even bigger imo.

I think in most cases, Oscar only ever looked good against guys he was superior too in terms of attributes (in his winning fights)

 

Wow, this is the second time I've seen you bring race into these types of debates. Leonard's resume is stacked fuller than any of the guys you mentioned.

Leonard- Britton, McLarnin, Kilbane, Tendler, Lewis, Welsh, as well as guys like Kansas, Bartfield, Mitchell, Dundee, Cline, Ritchie, etc.

I don't give a **** what color these guys are, that is a fantastic resume. Look over those names.

Williams- Gavilan, Jack, Montgomery, Angott, Joyce, Larkin, Zurita, etc. Also a great resume, but I wouldn't put it on the level of Leonard's, especially considering we don't seem to be taking into account WW wins, and Gavilan was beaten at WW, holding the other wins in the series over Ike.

As far as not looking impressive on film. What about the guys you've mentioned on film makes you think they could beat Whitaker? I don't think, even though Ortiz was an all around great fighter, that he holds any real stylistic advantages over Pea, who was better than Laguna. Same applies of Williams(which I have discussed) and Canzoneri, who was basically a lesser version of Duran, who you've also picked Pea to give a "boxing lesson" at LW.

 

Never really looked at Leonard's legacy in this light, but he was dominant, even in a weaker era, dominance is a great thing imo. Not saying you're wrong here, but greatness is so subjective.

EDIT- I think Pea's just reminded me why i havent looked at Leonard's legacy in that light!!!!

 

But he is wrong, Leonard's era was absolutely fantastic. His resume is amazing.

 

Yea, you're right, ive just got outta bed, wasnt thinking!!!!

 

I think a well rounded great fighter, is the perfect style to beat whitaker. He doesn't have to hold a certain edge in anything. The type of guy that can apply pressure, box and punch, is the perfect style for someone that is a defensive pure boxer.

Again, you have just fallen into the hype that those opponents of benny were so great.

He never beat ted kid lewis ok, so dont give him a win for something he didnt do. He never beat Mclarnin either. Kid Gavilan, Sammy Angott, Bob Montogomery and Beau Jack are all better than anyone Benny Leonard has a win over. A win, not a disputable draw that has split opinions.

I also rank Duilio Loi, Nicolino Locche, Ismael Laguna, Flash Elore and Joe Brown above guys like Tendler, Ritchie, Kansas, Dundee, Welsh, and kilbane.

 

Anyway, to answer the thread question, i like your original post Pea. I know you eliminated Robinson for reasons you outlined clearly, but in my mind, it is still him at 147 more than any other. I think accounts and heresay just dont quite do the man justice when attempting to describe how good he was. Remarkable

 

Either way, by suggesting Pea is unbeatable at 135, you are implying that he would beat every atg that ever fought at 135, which is laughable. Nuthugging to its finest.

 

I never said that, I said they were the same historically. Oscar dominated the field at 135lb btw no one came close to touching him there, add that to his top 12 standing at welterweight all time and his h2h abilities, and the fact unlike pernell whitaker he fought most of the best around his weight class of his era so it evens things out

Oscar De La Hoya's skills are laughable? He was the best pure boxer of the 1990s. When you take into consideration his amazing fluid combinations which rolled off his shoulders like a ball being rolled down a smooth hill, his elegent powerful sharp left jab, his high gaurd and intelligent boxing brain......then you have the best pure textbook boxer of the 1990s. Im talking textbook boxer, not speedy reflexes(jones) or defensive wizardry(whitaker).........we are talking pure boxing. they dont come better than oscar de la hoya. you may have discussed it but you certainly never proved your point.

your the only one who thinks whitaker is # 1 h2h at 135lb of all time

I dont have time right now to get into detail but that statement right there is ridiculous. IMO whitaker would be struggling to survive the distance vs a peak ike williams. Ill leave it at that for now.

 

Exactly, who was whitaker fighting at welterweight besides buddy mcgirt during his 4 year riegn as champ, fringe contenders. Hardly any big fights.

 

Williams era was better, he also took on black fighters unlike leonard. the top lightweights williams took on on film had much more better modern styles while many of benny leonards victims had styles remeniscint of bareknuckle fighters.

 

Damn, beat me to it.

 

Why? That makes very little sense. Usually it's the strong pressure fighters/swarmers that are the ones that give the slicker boxers/movers trouble. Whitaker has proven to be at his best against that style, so it's out of the equation. Someone who's content to box with Whitaker is not going to come out of it best the way I see it.

From what I understand, he did beat an aging Lewis.

True, he lost at the very end of his career in his last fight.

Britton is at least as good a win as Lewis. And I wouldn't say Angott and Montgomery are better wins neccessarily than Welsh, Kilbane, Tendler, etc. Not at all, and definitely not better than Britton.

You rank Elorde as a better LW than any of those guys? Than Tendler at LW? That is just stupid.

 

You rate him over the consensus two best in Leonard and Duran, yet it's ridiculous to think he beats Canzoneri? You're a walking contradiction.

 

Which proves what? He took on the better fighters for his era(and it was a better era, while he was a more consistent, dominant fighter), regardless of what you think of their potential in later eras. This has gotten down to an argument about resumes, not styles or head to head potential.

He rates Pea above both Leonard and Duran at LW, even though Pea's resume does not hang with either fighter, taking into account only LW bouts. Yet he thinks it's ridiculous for me to rate Pea ahead of a guy like Canzoneri in a head to head sense, for whatever reason.