The most unbeatable fighter ever..............

Yeah.

 

I name my favorite fighter, Carlos Monzon.

 

fd

 

Ortiz really dominated Locche? I've never been able to get much info on that fight, so I didn't know that. That really speaks well of Ortiz, and boosts my esteem for him, which is high, even more.

 

I must also name a guy to the list (he's already on it, I know), Sweetpea Whitaker, a guy I have begrudged in the past that I'm beginning to appreciate more and more.

 

Tyson/Ali @ HW
Jones @ 168
Whitaker @ 135
Lopez @ 108
SRR @ 147

 

What an embarassing post. :-(

Leonard's accomplishments at lightweight are better than anyone's at lightweight when you consider that he beat a talented bunch of fighters OVER AND OVER again, showing CONSISTENCY as well as dominance. Something no other lightweight has done over such a talented bunch of fighters.

Anyone that scoff's at names like Lew Tendler, Johnny Dundee, Johnny Kilbane, Freddie Welsh, Willie Ritchie, Rocky Kansas, Ritchie Mitchell vetc. is an ignorant fool.

This is to say nothing of him holding his own with Ted Kid Lewis whilst only weighing in as a lightweight and dominating welters like Jack Britton and Soldier Bartfield when only weighing in at the lightweight limit.

I won't even bother going into the point about him not fighting black fighters....

 

He clearly beat him, but didn't dominate him. They called it a draw becuase unless you hold a 4 point edge, they used to call em draws in Argentina. Ortiz didn't have a 4 point edge.

 

If we're talking pure boxing ability and don't include things like being able to take a punch, resilience, consistency, etc, I think Meldrick Taylor is a better pure boxer than Oscar de la Hoya.

 

Pretty weak coming from you Pea- letting your icons makeup for lack of a coherent argument.

Take it arond the block a couple of times. Who did Pernell really beat that warrants him as best p4p? He was a clever counter puncher southpaw with first rate defense. That would confuse a lot of fighters including Chavez and account for his dominant showings. Hector Camacho was a clever counter puncher, southpaw with first rate defense but with twice the speed.

This tells me that head to head he would come off second best to Camacho who fought as a blwonup lightweight. I think in a actual matchup Hector's edge in speed would throw off Pernell's timing and would reduce his effectiveness turning an otherwise dominant fighter to an ordinary one. Hector would truly become the Macho man in this encounter and he could take more chances because he knows Pernell would have no chance of hurting him.

This would spur him on to become more aggressive as he had in the Davis fight. Eventually, Hector would put more combinations together on the bewildered SweetPea, and has him covering up from the dazzling displays and in the end, wins a convincing decision.

You have to admit that there's never been anyone Pernell faced in his career who had this much going for him-all the assets Pernell had plus a significant edge in speed. Pernell loses everytime.

 

Red, how likely do you think that is, when a diminished Whitaker was able to deal with the speed of DLH to at least (I don't care who you thought 'won' the fight) hold his own against him?

You think Camacho is faster? Fine. But remember that was a diminished Whitaker. A prime one was faster himself and sharper.

DLH had height, reach, speed and power edges, and Whitaker neautralised him with his boxing savvy.

Despite DLH being supposedly stronger, it was Whitaker who controlled the clinches and dictated the pace with his jab.

Explain to us how a shorter, not as strong, not as powerful, Camacho is going to deal with a PRIME Whitaker to 'throw him off' and 'bewilder' him?

I don't see it happening.

 

De La Hoya is a masterful pure boxer, Meldrick Taylor who relied heavily on his blistering handspeed was not in his league.

De La Hoya has put on boxing clinics time and time again - He was a boxer/puncher, who I always felt was more at home as the boxer, Vs Trinidad, Vargas(for parts) and the second Moseley fight. I still think he beat Whitaker decisively BTW.

He had an excellent jab, combined it with excellent footwork to keep power punchers at bay, and could slug if it came to it.

As for the most unbeatable fighters ever,
*Tempted to mention Ali, but given there are so many big punchers in the heavyweight divison I won't name a heavyweight,
Pep at 126
Ray Robinson at 147
Gene Tunney at <200

 

I think that's an excellent point. But of course, Tunney could be bombed out by guys like Marciano or Dempsey. Pep and Robinson are solid picks, though.

 

I've never seen DLH put on a boxing display like Meldrick did against Julio Cesar Chavez and Buddy McGirt. Those were masterclasses of the highest order, and were not achieved solely because of hand speed, which of course Meldrick relied heavily upon (and Oscar didn't?) He had great boxing skill of his own, and threw combo's like nobody's business.

DLH did box well against Trinidad (until he started to run - he had the fight in the bag of course) and Mosley in the rematch, but he also had his struggles against Mosley the first time round, and Whitaker and Quartey both outboxed him imo. I thought Oscar did enough to draw against Quartey, but it wasn't because of his boxing ability, it was because of his desperate rally in the last round.

 

How do you know? We only saw him for a couple of minutes. I could say "Ali from the second Liston fight"... nobody would even touch him.