The Murderers' Row

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by the cobra, Aug 24, 2008.


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  1. the cobra

    the cobra Awesomeizationism! Full Member

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    How do you rank the outstanding fighters of The Black Murderers' Row against each other?


    My ranking of these fighters is this:

    #1. Charley Burley
    #2. Holman Williams
    #3. Jimmy Bivins
    #4. Lloyd Marshall
    #5. Eddie Booker
    #6. Jack Chase
     
    the cobra, Aug 24, 2008
    the cobra, Aug 24, 2008
    #1
  2. TommyV

    TommyV Loyal Member banned

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    Pretty much the same, I might possibly switch Marshall and Bivins.
     
    TommyV, Aug 24, 2008
    TommyV, Aug 24, 2008
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  3. the cobra

    the cobra Awesomeizationism! Full Member

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    I thought about it, Marshall's resume is superior, but I don't believe it's superior by enough to overlook the fact that their only fight resulted in Bivins knocking Lloyd out.
     
    the cobra, Aug 24, 2008
    the cobra, Aug 24, 2008
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  4. TommyV

    TommyV Loyal Member banned

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    I suppose your right. Marshall's resume is very deep though. I can't believe that guy wasn't inducted into the IBHOF.
     
    TommyV, Aug 24, 2008
    TommyV, Aug 24, 2008
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  5. tylerrcurtis

    tylerrcurtis Well-Known Member Full Member

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    i agree with that line up that you have..i think burley is the clear number one
     
    tylerrcurtis, Aug 24, 2008
    tylerrcurtis, Aug 24, 2008
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  6. the cobra

    the cobra Awesomeizationism! Full Member

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    It's an absolute disgrace by any standards that Marshall is not a Hall-of-Famer, especially when guys like Rocky Graziano and Pipino Cuevas are in the hall.

    I believe Holman Williams was just recently inducted, which of course was long over due.
     
    the cobra, Aug 24, 2008
    the cobra, Aug 24, 2008
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  7. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Bivins had at least 10-15lb on Marshall I believe, he was naturally the bigger man, so I wouldnt put too much stock on there fight.


    Heres how I rate them

    1. Archie Moore
    2. Charley Burley
    3. Lloyd Marshall
    4. Holman Williams
    5. Eddie Booker
    6. Jimmy Bivins
    7. Jack Chase
    8. Bert Lytell
    9. Shorty Hogue
    10. Joe Carter
     
    SuzieQ49, Aug 24, 2008
    SuzieQ49, Aug 24, 2008
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  8. Loewe

    Loewe internet hero Full Member

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    Yeah but this was an experienced Burley against an inexperienced Moore. I think this is comparable to Jones-Hopkins quite a bit.
     
    Loewe, Aug 25, 2008
    Loewe, Aug 25, 2008
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  9. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Burley should be above Moore, who I don't think came to his peak until after Burley had beaten him and he broke out of the Row into themainstream.

    I would also have Williams above Marshall, though the other way around is not unreasonable.

    I also think Lytell has a case for being above Chase. I like your high placing of Booker. My five:

    1 - Charley Burley
    2 - Holman Williams
    3 - Lloyd Marshall
    4 - Jimmy Bivins
    5 - Eddie Booker


    No love for the Cocoa Kid, anyone? He dominated Williams in a series?

    SQ, why no Kid on your list?
     
    McGrain, Aug 25, 2008
    McGrain, Aug 25, 2008
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  10. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I disagree with you. By the time he took on Burley he'd done 40 rounds with Jack Chase and been in thrice with Eddie Booker. I agree he wasn't peaked yet, but he was hardly inexperienced. That is more rounds with world class competition than most champions have today.
     
    McGrain, Aug 25, 2008
    McGrain, Aug 25, 2008
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  11. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Yeah, he's just in.

    The problem with Marshall, and with Cocoa Kid, too, is that they were seen as "business fighters", guys who would take a dive when instructed. This also suggests they may have had a favour done in return. Now we all know that even Sugar Ray would do business with the mob occasionally, and that few fighter from that era are untouched (especially the Calafornia fighters), but these two have been singled out.

    It does present a conundrum.
     
    McGrain, Aug 25, 2008
    McGrain, Aug 25, 2008
    #11
  12. Loewe

    Loewe internet hero Full Member

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    Yep but you have to put it into perspective. For his time he was inexperienced - compare it to Burley. Nowadays it would obviously different.
     
    Loewe, Aug 25, 2008
    Loewe, Aug 25, 2008
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  13. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    This, I mosty agree with. My position is that Burley finished Moore's education. This is the fight I would love to have on film, more than any other.
     
    McGrain, Aug 25, 2008
    McGrain, Aug 25, 2008
    #13
  14. Loewe

    Loewe internet hero Full Member

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    I agree with it that´s why I compared it with Jones-Hopkins. Hopkins himself said he learned very much out of it and even if he entered his prime 4 years later, after Jones and the first Mercado fight he already learned everything he needed to know.
     
    Loewe, Aug 25, 2008
    Loewe, Aug 25, 2008
    #14
  15. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Cocoa was a welterweight, i just ranked the middles. but cocoa rates top 7 for sure.
     
    SuzieQ49, Aug 25, 2008
    SuzieQ49, Aug 25, 2008
    #15
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