The noise that is Froch or just a white hype?

It wasn't long ago (start of the Super 6) that the division was viewed as stacked and talent rich, hence the tournament. What the tourney did was accelerate the clearing out of a whole generation of fighters, but at least everyone got to see them all fight each other without any bull****.

Maybe it says more about how good Ward is? And also, that he did headbutt quite a lot. Take your pick. His fans say it shows he's the best thing since sliced bread, his detractors think it should have been a DQ loss.

You answer the highlighted bit with your last sentence...the point is Froch's resume leaves no question marks, and it's rare you can say that about a modern fighter. This, and the fact there's only ONE GUY he's faced who he hasn't beaten is what makes him special.

He beat Kessler, he beat Dirrell (despite your opinion), and lost to Ward. Again, if you listen to Ward's fans, no one will ever beat him. I don't think Dirrell really counts. He doesn't have any desire to go with his ability, and no heart, so he kinda lacks the basic fundamentals to get himself anywhere. Which means he isn't one of the best of the SMWs of this generation. Because he doesn't fight.

If he moved up to LH...yeah, but he's not going to, normal for 168 or not. He's trying (and doing a fairly good job) to clear out or at least fight everyone in his division.

 

This. I don't even like him. But he has fought everybody put in front of him and actively sought out the best fights. He lost to the best in his division and has actively worked to get another shot. You can't ask anything more of a fighter.

And your use "White hype" is really funny considering the P4P biggest hypejobs:

Jeff Lacy
Michael Grant
James Kirkland
Andre Berto
Every "Klitschko Killing" American HW

All have one thing in common. And it isn't "white" hype.

 

• Most definitely the S6 tournament was a good thing. It got the best fighting each other. But I never regarded it to be that talented. The only person that impressed me in it -- by looking at the skills/talent displayed -- was Ward. And Dirrell to an extent.
• It was partially to do with how good Ward is, but also that Kessler -- the "best" -- wasn't as good as everyone made out.
• Of course, Froch's resume is to be admired. No holes in it. He faced everyone.
• I threw Dirrell's name in there because at the time he was the most impressive fighter for me after Ward - and Froch couldn't beat him (on my scorecard). He lost to a past-prime version of Kessler, and managed to finally beat him when Kessler was further removed from his best.
• Yeah, I know he won't move up to 175. I'm just saying that if he did, his skills/abilities would be put back into perspective.

It's important to note that the above criticism applies to Ward also - who I'm a massive fan of. His hype has also been boosted by a division that actually isn't/wasn't as good as everyone made out.

 

Ward beat Dawson, and dawson weighed 186 on fight night.

 

Froch is a very good fighter, but he's not as good as many make him out to be. He was dominated by a one handed Ward, he needed a gift to beat an inexperienced Dirrell, and he was losing going into the 12th round against a faded Jermain Taylor. He also lost to a near prime Kessler. He's pretty dominant against import Canadians though. He would lose to a damn near 50 year old Hopkins, and Calzaghe would've wiped the floor with him. Again, I thnk he's a very good fighter and he's been fighting top notch comp the last few years. However, he's not better than Calzaghe. That talk needs to stop.

 

hes just hype right. ward is his daddy

 

All good points, the only thing I'd say is that I don't know how 'past prime' Kessler really was...he only had the loss JC at the time the tourney started, so that was kind of why people were saying he'd win...that and he seemed he most even balance of skill/power/chin/heart/experience of all the entrants. I think the Froch loss to Kessler is quite an anomaly. As a fan of his who has seen most of his fights, he didn't fight his normal fight that night. Had he been at his best, he would have won that fight. I also think Kessler was in better physical condition in the last fight. He hadn't come off the back of a loss, and his vision was back to normal, and he'd had 3 straight KO wins where he didn't take many shots (I actually question the Green knockdown...it looked more like when he hit the deck in Froch I to me, just off balance and moving away and went down significantly after the last landed shot - people read waaaay too much into that)

But his lossses have taught him lessons that he has heeded well. He knows there are people that give him stylistic problems, and I would still back his chin and power at LHW, even if he would be smaller than some guys. I mean, Glen Johnson operated well at Light Heavy and seemed a LOT smaller than Froch when they fought, and they have comparable chin and power.

 

Agree with a lot of what you wrote. Sorry for lazy reply...

• Kessler by no means was shot or anything. But compared to what he once was, a lot of his physical abilities had left him.
• I personally think Froch was as good as he could have been in the first Kessler fight. It's just that Kessler, even that past-prime version of him with all of the problems he was having, was/is a superior fighter.
• I can see why you would think Kessler was in better physical condition the second time round. He was coming off three victories where he didn't endure any punishment and he seemed to be in a better place emotionally/mentally. Montoya was also doing an excellent job and improved parts of his game. But really, I think none of that did enough to stop the inevitable decline he was/is experiencing. He had hardly any rounds under his belt since 2010, had two surgeries, was a lot slower, and his ability to absorb shots had deteriorated, too.
• The Green knockdown was legit, in my opinion. He recovered well, but he was hurt from it.
• Agree that the losses have improved Froch.
• I too believe his chin and power would carry up to 175 - which is why I would like to see him try it. If he don't, ain't no biggie.

 

:rofl

 

it's daft, man, the pascal and taylor fights were free to air as well. apart from haye it seems only olympians get much exposure. i think saturday's probably changed that for him now.

 

He has 3 losses to me, and has not avenged any of his losses. And, you missed the whole point of my post.

@ the bold, are you nuts? You think I just started following boxing? Maybe you should see the keyword: Around. Around his weight class, hence why I didn't say IN his weight class.

 

It's not that he's white per se', it's more that he's European. Couple that with the strong European presence on this board, and this is what you get. I like Froch, respect what he's done, but he's not quite as "big" off this board as he is on it. No disrespect to Froch or any fans, it's just what it is.

 

He's not over hyped, just celebrated more than other, better fighters. And there's nothing wrong with that.

 

"a great fighter either rarely loses, if he does lose he avenges his losses or was just past prime, or losses to no one"

what can you say to this sort of nonsense?

there aren't many who retire undefeated. so that's out the window.

Tommy Hearns never avenged against Leonard of Hagler
Marco Antonio Barrera never did against Jr Jones
George Foreman never did against Ali or Young
Marquez never did against John and Norwood
Hagler never did agaiinst Watts
Frazier against Foreman
Tyson against Douglas
Liston against Ali
Wilfredo Gomez against Sanchez
Spinks against Tyson
Benn against Watson
Curry against Honeyghan
Tszyu against Philips

there's so many more... so, these aren't great fighters to you? atsch

Froch would never in his wildest dreams beat Dirrell and Dawson? :rofl:rofl

1) he's already beaten Dirrell
2) Pascal beat the overrated Dawson. Diacinu only lost by two points to the great Dawson. and he isn't a great fighter. Froch would stop Dawson.

you're crazy, but i know you can't help it. :yep :nut

 

Froch is a good fighter. IMHO, really good.

He is just not quite as good as Ward. Father time played a horrible trick on the guy.