The overwhelming praise for Sonny Liston's abilities

It is a real shame most ppl remember Liston because his defeats to Ali.

Sadly, those defeats ruined a good deal of Sonny's image and there was not comeback from that.

Imagine how different Liston's reputation would be today if those fights with Ali had played out differently. And I don't mean Liston beating Ali... just Liston giving a decent performance and going down on his shield. How different would be his legacy viewed today.

 

No doubt he was the real champ during a lot of the Patterson years.

 

Emanuel Steward said Liston, after winning the title, began living like a comfortable middle-aged man, and he mentions that Sonny began golfing. Granted, he bought a house on a golf course in Vegas and I know that his return bout with Patterson was postponed because he twisted his knee swinging a golf club. However, golf was not his problem. His number one problem was drinking. His wife Gerry was quoted once saying that Sonny couldn't drink, that every time he got in trouble it was caused by drinking. Foneda Cox, his old friend and sparring partner from his St. Louis days, complained that when Sonny was drunk driving and had an accident the two would switch seats before the cops arrived. Obviously this was done at Liston's urging. "That man ruined my driving record," Cox told me. Liston had a lot of naughty overgrown boy in him. And then there was the skirt-chasing, or as Sonny so delicately put it, his "broad jumping".

"He had the biggest ***** I ever saw," Cox said. "He put prostitutes in the hospital from jamming them." When he lived in Denver (1961 to 1965) it was still a dusty, underpopulated cow town known for its friendly people. Folks wanted to like and accept him but when he was drinking he'd turn mean. And when police would catch him driving drunk they'd need reinforcements because he'd look for a fight. He'd do foolish things like entering the exit of a fast-food restaurant. It wasn't long before Sonny wore out his welcome. Denver was too square for The Bear. Las Vegas was more his speed.

 

He's not one of my own H2H darlings, as I've alluded to many times over the forum years. But if you had told me I was facing him in two weeks, both of us in our prime forms, while I may not defecate in-pants, immediately, I would be depressed for two weeks. Then, the last day, the pants thing.

 

What kind of monster goes the wrong way through a drive-through?

 

As long as Wepner and Foreman are around, Sonny's boxing rep will remain protected.

 

I feel he's overated but that's just me. Seems most of his ranking is based on hype and stories rather then actual in ring performance.

 

Patterson KO’s 1 round x 2
Williams KO’s 2 rounds and 3 rounds.
Folley KO 3 rounds
Just those are mighty impressive in ring performances I would have thought.

 

100% spot on--GREAT point!!

All the more reason to pick up Paul Gallender's book: "The Real Story Behind the Ali-Liston Fights." It really gives you a lot of "behind the scenes" scoop that most accounts of those fights overlook--ESPECIALLY the first fight. Sonny really thought all he had to do was show up and give Ali that hungry lion death stare and Ali would literally pass out in fear. His training and preparation were lackluster and he came into that fight WAYYY overconfident. He was in no way prepared for Ali's speed and skill which led to his, shall we say, "inglorious" end!

I think if Sonny came into that fight in peak condition with razor-sharp focus and preparation he might still have lost but IMHO his legacy would not have been so tarnished. Add to that all the swirling controversy of the 2nd Ali fight and that's pretty much all most folks know about Liston. I honestly believe you could make a case for Sonny being possibly the 2nd greatest HW to step into a ring next to Ali when he was at his best!

 

I think the first Ali-Liston fight is more equal than people say. Ali was better, but there is no question of outclassing him

 

I have Sonny down as a Top 10 heavyweight great. And the second best heavyweight of the 1960s.
A hard hitting,skilful box-puncher.

 

As the writer Robert Lipsyte said about Liston:" As Heavyweight Champion Of The World...you die trying. Sonny didn't do that...he just sat there"...Yup! Sounds like an ATG to me!

 

Exactly. In the 2 biggest fights of his career...he s**t himself in front of the whole world. His stock went WAY down after crapping his pants and quitting while SITTING ON HIS STOOL against Clay in Miami in Feb.1964...and then taking a DIVE against Ali up in Maine in May 1965. Lots of revisionist history with Liston on this site. I met him as a kid when he was training for the debacle up in Maine in 1965. He was training in Plymouth Mass. The Massachusetts boxing commission got wind of "things" and canceled the fight at the Boston Garden set for November 1964. Nobody wanted it...so that's how it ended up in Maine. You can pick and choose any version of Liston to fit your "agenda",,,the fact is he didn't do S**T as champ...nothing. People get all excited about the "Stare down"...so what...that's kid stuff on the playground! Real fighters down pay attention to the "Stare down". Sonny was a bully...pure and simple...Clay/Ali got into his head...Liston fell apart...