The perfect time to retire.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Omega74, Oct 19, 2021.

  1. Omega74

    Omega74 New Member Full Member

    Apr 27, 2021
    This Theard is about ATG's who hung in the game for too long. When do you think would've been the perfect time to retire on top, for the following fighters:

    Muhammad Ali
    Sugar Ray Robinson
    Mike Tyson
    Evander holyfield
    Joe Louis
    Ezzard Charles
    Archie Moore
    Roy Jones Jr

    Would their legacy and ranking in boxing history change, if they would've retired earlier than they had? Imagine Ray Robinson retiring with a record of 129-1-2. You can also include fighters you think would fit in this type of discussion.
    GeoZe, Rakesh and Richard M Murrieta like this.
  2. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Jan 3, 2007
    There are some who definitely would have benefitted from an earlier retirement date. In some cases legacy wise. In other cases for health reasons and in some instances both. Roy Jones definitely would have had a much better record had he retired sooner. The second Tarver fight probably would have been a good time or even after the first. Sugar Ray Leonard coming out of retirement to fight Camacho was just insanity.
  3. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Boxing Addict Full Member

    Aug 15, 2018
    Muhammad Ali- after Frazier 3
    Sugar Ray Robinson not sure
    Mike Tyson- holy 2 (hardest one imo to pick)
    Evander holyfield- Lewis 2
    Joe Louis- after Walcott 2
    Ezzard Charles- after Marciano 1
    Archie Moore- Pastrano
    Roy Jones Jr- Tarver 1
    Mike_b, HolDat, Man_Machine and 4 others like this.
  4. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Bergeron Avatar Club Full Member

    Jun 30, 2005
    Cooper and Foreman had it right. Retire after a loss to a top contender where the majority of the boxing public thinks you were robbed. That's just enough of a push to get out of the game, but with maximum pride intact. And for years afterward, you get to hear your fans tell you that they were sure you beat that last guy. (And woulda moidered da bum in your prime.)
  5. Fergy

    Fergy Walking Dead Full Member

    Jan 8, 2017
    Yes your right. Old Enry could have carried on, maybe hoping for a rematch with Bugner, but he said Ahhh duck that, I'm out of here.
  6. White Bomber

    White Bomber Well-Known Member Full Member

    Mar 31, 2021
    Yes, their legacy would change, and some would be regarded as even greater boxers than they are regarded now.

    SRR, who's already the GOAT, tainted his legacy a bit by racking up 19 losses.
    He had 3 potential good moments to retire:
    1. the first one is when he actually retired for a bit after the Joey Maxim loss. He could have remained retired.
    2. the second one IMO is after he beat Bobo Olsen to regain the title and defended it against the same man.
    3. the third one is after he lost and then regained the title against Fullmer and Basilio.

    Ali had 2 great moments to retire:
    1. after the Rumble in the Jungle
    2. after the Thrilla in Manilla

    RJJ should have retired after he became HW champ against Ruiz or maybe after the first Tarver fight.

    Holyfield after he beat Moorer in the rematch or after the Tyson bouts.

    In Tyson's case, perhaps after he regained the title against Bruno. But it would have left question marks.
  7. djanders

    djanders Boxing Addict Full Member

    Feb 21, 2009
    When I read this, I immediately thought of Jack Dempsey. Even hearing it as a toddler, it has always stuck in my mind how nearly everyone believed that Jack was robbed in his second fight with Tunney...because of the famous 7th round "long count." Even years later, the average non-boxing fan "knew" that Jack had been given a raw deal against Tunney.
  8. Richard M Murrieta

    Richard M Murrieta Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Jul 16, 2019
    George Foreman did it right, now he does commercials for Medicare. Carlos Monzon did it right as well, retired as World Middleweight Champion, 1970- 1977, 14 successful title defenses.
  9. Rubber Glove Sandwich

    Rubber Glove Sandwich Member Full Member

    Aug 15, 2020
    Muhammad Ali - Leon Spinks 2
    Sugar Ray Robinson - Gene Fullmer 3
    Mike Tyson - Lennox Lewis
    Evander Holyfield - Lennox Lewis 2
    Joe Louis - Walcott 2
    Ezzard Charles - Marciano 1
    Archie Moore - Wouldn't change
    Roy Jones Jr - Tarver 1
    Richard M Murrieta likes this.
  10. janitor

    janitor Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Feb 15, 2006
    Are we talking about legacy, health, finances, or a trade off between the three?
    Brixton Bomber likes this.
  11. thistle

    thistle Well-Known Member Full Member

    Dec 21, 2016
    when the Training gets Harder, or the Motivation wanes, a fighter becomes 'gun shy' and is just not the same fighter. I'd say it is then Retirement isn't just advised, but it becomes crucial to a fighters Safety & Health and potentially even deadly for them.
    Brixton Bomber and HolDat like this.
  12. Omega74

    Omega74 New Member Full Member

    Apr 27, 2021
    Legacy should be the priority in this thread.
  13. HolDat

    HolDat Active Member Full Member

    Sep 25, 2020
    I've noticed this in other areas of life (being around older people). At a certain age, you can't pull the trigger anymore.
    thistle likes this.
  14. Pepsi Dioxide

    Pepsi Dioxide Active Member Full Member

    Oct 22, 2020
    Good calls on these, I think Holyfield after the second Lewis fight would of been good. If he retires after Moorer 2 before unifying with Lewis it would of been treated as a duck 100%.

    Tyson after Ruddock 2, post prison no return. Or like you said after Bruno 2 (probably best we skip Tyson-Seldon)
    White Bomber likes this.
  15. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Jan 3, 2007
    I think Everett Martin should have retired after about his 25th loss