the phenomenon of being fat and having good stamina in boxing.

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by bruce_keyes, Jun 10, 2019.



  1. dealt_with

    dealt_with Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    That’s it. When you’re relaxed you’re efficient, when you spar that is boxing specific fitness. Running is pointless for heavyweights.
     
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  2. dealt_with

    dealt_with Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Fat is damaging to your endurance and stamina, all things being equal. Muscle helps efficiency and power, it is beneficial for stamina. It is active contractile tissue, fat is just weight. You’re not comparing apples to apples, having that muscle allows extra power. When you create more power it’s just a fact of physics, you use more energy to create more work. There’s a trade off, but you can’t say that muscle is damaging to stamina when you’re performing a more powerful movement. If you perform the same movement at the same intensity then muscle is providing an advantage.
    I ran my best times with low body fat, the best in the world run with low body fat and the physiological fact is that running with low body fat is the best thing you can do for your times. When you were fat and running it’s probably just because you were well fed, loaded up on carbs with fullly loaded muscle glucogen.
     
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  3. Luis Fernando

    Luis Fernando Well-Known Member Full Member

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    It's simple! He's consuming more calories than he is burning. Keep in mind, that stamina and fat have very little to no correlation. Body fat is simply dependent upon how much calories a person consumes, relative to the amount of calories they burn. If they consume more calories than they burn, than they will gain fat. It's really that simple!

    However, provided a person is performing boxing specific stamina exercises, and they still consume more calories than they burn (doing those stamina exercises) and therefore become fat, then that fat would have pretty much no effect on their stamina. They'd still have good stamina, despite growing fat. They could alternatively choose to consume less calories than the amount they are are burning (doing those same stamina exercises) and instead, they'd lose fat (and will still have the same stamina as they would, if they were fat).

    Basically in short, stamina has nothing to do with fat. Fat is simply dependent on how much calories a person burns, relative to how much they consume.

    And in the heavyweight division, it's far better to be fat and have good stamina than to be skinny and have good stamina because fat improves the heavyweight's durability and punch resistance. This especially applies to shorter heavyweights!
     
  4. Badbot

    Badbot Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    It's his diet.
    He started out at 300 went down as low as 246.

    He probably eats a ton of modern junk.
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    Try going to a shop and find something without sugar or corn syrup in it.
     
  5. Jackomano

    Jackomano Boxing Addict Full Member

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    To be fair about Ruiz his stamina is only good when his opponent is stationary. I’ve seen very mobile and lighter fighters blow him up in the gym, so despite his win over Joshua Ruiz still needs cut out the tres leches and other sweets out of his diet and get his weight under control if he wants to keep those titles.

    Edison Miranda and Ronald Gavril both had Ruiz sucking wind by tagging him and moving when they sparred with him.

    Also, I still think Joshua and Hearn seriously underestimated Ruiz and didn’t do their homework considering Joshua came in looking for the knockout, which was foolhardy. If they would’ve asked anybody that’s been to Los Angeles and sparred Ruiz they would’ve known that Andy’s best asset is his durability while his weakness is he hates having to use his legs and move around the ring.

    As critical as I am of Kevin Barry he had Parker use the perfect strategy to get the win over Ruiz. But, it didn’t hurt that Barry was Ruiz’s trainer for a short time and even had Ruiz spar Parker earlier in Parker’s career.

    Kevin Barry talking about his past with Ruiz

    "I was surprised that he had a lot more to learn. But he was an exciting fighter and I went and watched him fight a couple of times.

    "I had a meeting with Andy's manager, he liked my approach and everything and after the shoulder was right I was going to be working with Andy. We negotiated a fee to train him, more or less on a weekly basis."

    Circumstances changed in Ruiz's corner and Barry has no regrets.”
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    An interview from 2016 with Barry talking about Ruiz sparring Parker

    "I really thought that the kid [Andy] was good enough to be world champion, otherwise I wouldn't have been interested," Barry said of his brief time with Ruiz.

    "I saw him fight Oliver McCall's son Elijah in late 2012. McCall was 11-1 and a college footballer, a big strong muscular guy. He came out and cracked Andy flush. I'm literally sitting in the corner ... Andy didn't even move, and then just rips into him and brutally knocks him out. I thought this kid is frickin' awesome.

    "Andy was a beast and we'd go around the gyms [in Las Vegas] and spar anyone who was willing to hop in the ring with him."

    That's what led to Barry taking Parker to spar with Ruiz the following year, a meeting that has been well recorded. Ruiz smashed an unsuspecting Parker. The Kiwi and his mentor went away, worked on some tricks, and came back and dominated the subsequent sparring session. That gave the younger Parker the confidence that he could handle the pressures of the division.

    "When we look back on that now, this was 2013, Joe was learning, he was in his infancy stage, he wasn't even a 10 round fighter," Barry surmises.

    "If you look at the improvement and development from 2013 till now, I think most of the development has been done by Joe."
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  6. Badbot

    Badbot Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Are we talking about short distance explosive runs or something more like a marathon?
    If you google fastest runners then most look like Jean Pascal. Pascal had bad stamina for a world class boxer.
    If you look at marathon runners then everyone is slim as ****.

    The more muscle you have the more explosive you can be, but that requires stamina. Being fat in a boxing ring wont drain your stamina. Explosive movements will do more so.
    This is why guys likes Wlad had a hard time figuring out their ideal pace.
     
  7. CutThroatFade

    CutThroatFade Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Read my post again. I’m talking about excess muscle mass, not muscle mass on its own. There’s not one fighter in history in MMA or boxing who has demonstrated elite stamina and endurance with an overly muscled bodybuilder physique. That’s the point I was getting at.

    I know fat is not conducive to athleticism. I’m comparing excess fat with excess muscle. The muscle undoubtedly uses more oxygen and fills with lactic muscle. You can’t deny that.

    Cain Velazquez is the heavyweight fighter who sticks out the most when you think of a heavyweight with amazing stamina and endurance and this guy had an average muscled body with clearly mid-to-high teens bodyfat percentage.

    No **** the best long distance runners in the world have low bodyfat. They also have bodies like emaciated cancer patients with the muscle mass of an athletic female. That’s the point I was getting at. Excess muscle is not conducive to endurance and stamina. Not sure what point you were trying to make there. Imagine if Mo Farah put on 5lbs of muscle tissue. What exactly do you think would happen to his athletic performance?
     
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  8. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist Full Member

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    This analysis is fake science.
     
  9. dealt_with

    dealt_with Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    That’s what I was saying, you’re not comparing the same thing. Stamina in what context, in what measure? If your power is extreme than your energy levels are depleted more for every movement. You’re not doing the same work as a less powerful person. Therefore you can’t say that one person has more stamina than the other, because you’re comparing two different things. The more powerful person could be fitter on every endurance related metric (VO2, lactate tolerance, muscle capillarisation etc.) yet because of the more work they’re doing they’ll tire out faster than a less fit person.
    A boxing match isn’t from point A to point B.
     
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  10. dealt_with

    dealt_with Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    How would you quantify excess muscle? Without specific physiological measures you can’t determine what the relative effect is of the muscle you see. Muscle has mitochondria and capillaries to recycle oxygen and metabolic products (lactate) for further energy. Muscle is very important for peripheral fitness. Fat doesn’t have any of those qualities, muscle is active contractile tissue while fat is not.

    He would be faster, more powerful and a better athlete over short distances. Optimal muscle is relative to your sport, your style and is largely determined by your genetics (so you have little choice regardless). In heavyweight boxing there are no set parameters, heavier is an advantage and power is an advantage so generally speaking you want more muscle mass.

    In long distance running mechanical advantages are key, for efficiency over long distances. In boxing you’re not getting from point A to B. You have 12 rounds to do as much or as little work as you want. Knowing when to work and when not to is the key to endurance in boxing. The more skilled you are the less work you have to do. Physiological fitness is just a tiny part of stamina in boxing.
     
  11. MagicE

    MagicE New Member Full Member

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    Also I think that if you're a boxer that has been doing it since very young then it's more natural for you to be in the ring and you're less stressed, burning less nervous energy
     
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  12. rayrobinson

    rayrobinson Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    He isn't running a marathon , its 12 3's of boxing , he burns less calories than big AJ and trains differently .

    He will still get his runs in but probably does 10k in around an hour.
     
  13. CutThroatFade

    CutThroatFade Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Mate you are overcomplicating things, my posts in this thread are relating to the context of endurance and stamina and overall cardiovascular conditioning. You don’t need to inform me about the athletic benefits of muscle. I’ve been training for years.

    What constitutes “excess muscle”? Again look at the context of the thread. Anthony Joshua is clearly carrying excess unnecessary muscle mass as a boxer. That extra muscle is not conducive to his stamina and endurance in the ring. That’s the point I was making with my posts. I’m well aware that the added muscle is going to be conducive to his power and explosiveness.
     
  14. dealt_with

    dealt_with Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    My reply to you explains why there isn’t such a thing as too much muscle mass without giving a context. Stamina in what context? That is everything. Joshua can throw punches for twelve rounds, carry power in later rounds. That while being a 6’6 mobile boxer. He has outstanding stamina from what I can tell. The only time he looked fatigued against Ruiz was in the sixth round when he was winded by some brutal body shots.
     
  15. CutThroatFade

    CutThroatFade Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    How many Joshua fights have you seen? He has done 12 rounds once against Parker in a no action fight as a result of a terrible referee.

    Joshua totally gassed out against Takam and also against Wlad in the mid rounds but had a second wind late on. He completely and utterly gassed out early on against Ruiz. It’s also worth pointing out that Joshua was 10lbs lighter against Parker when he went 12 as opposed to when he boxed Takam and completely gassed out late on which further supports my argument that the excess muscle mass is not conducive to his stamina.

    In your paragraph I just quoted you stated that AJ has “outstanding stamina” and that he is a “mobile boxer”. That’s almost beyond parody. You are the only one I’ve seen here and in the wider boxing public who has praised Joshua’s stamina and mobility. He has a poor gas tank and is very immobile in his ring. Even his biggest fans will concede that those are his biggest weaknesses and that he would be better off operating at a weight between 230-240, perhaps even lighter.

    “Outstanding stamina” and a “mobile boxer”... Jesus wept. Are you talking about Joshua or Tyson Fury?
     

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