The post Lewis and pre Joshua/Fury era

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by dmt, Jun 20, 2024.


  1. dmt

    dmt Hardest hitting hw ever Full Member

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    So 2004-2016 until Fury and Joshua ended Wlad's reign for good.

    What were your thoughts about this 12 year era in heavyweight history as it was happening?

    Me? I hated it. I remember ESPN hyping Calvin Brock in 2005-06. I couldn't understand it. I had only been a boxing fan since 2004 so i thought perhaps the "experts" knew something i couldn't see. Turns out the so called experts are morons and my intuition was correct. Brock was a nice guy but a average fighter who was overhyped.

    Byrd was excellent even though he had a style that was never going to entertain anyone. But he lacked power and its not shocking that Wlad demolished him.

    Wlad hurt the reputation of heavyweight boxing. Against Povetkin, there were a reported 188 clinches in 12 rounds. Wlad vs Povetkin clinch stats! | Boxing News 24 Forum (boxingforum24.com) (Note: i didn't do this myself but the above poster counted it).

    People complain about Ali and Lewis but i never saw either guy initiate 100 plus clinches in a fight. Its disgraceful. In Frazier-Ali 3, Ali was holding on to Frazier in round 1. The ref grabbed Ali's hand and told him to stop. And he did. No one had the guts to do this to Wlad.

    Wlad's reign badly hurt boxing's reputation. Having biased ref's that would allow a nearly 250 lbs giant to lean on and clinch smaller opponents at will over and over again badly hurt heavyweight boxing.

    You don't need to ko people to be exciting. I loved Usyk's performances vs Joshua even though Usyk wasn't trying to ko him. But Usyk was trying to and successfully outboxed him. That's what makes him exciting. He believes in his skill and goes for it.

    Lewis was criticized for his reign being boring sometimes. But Lewis didn't clinch hard hitting David Tua 180 times. For the most part, Lewis jabbed and jabbed and threw some hard rights at Tua to intimidate him and keep him at bay. Contrast that with Wlad's appalling performance vs Povetkin. There is no comparison. Lewis fought with self belief that he could outbox dangerous fighters. Wlad didn't.

    I lost interest in hw boxing during this time. In fact, i lost a lot of interest in boxing. Thank goodness for 2016 onwards when we have seen a resurgance in boxing and especially at heavyweights. This era has better fighters and more importantly, guys who make it exciting to watch. The Wlad era is singularly the worst thing to happen to HW boxing in my life time.
     
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  2. bolo specialist

    bolo specialist Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Wlad was on or nearing his last legs when he beat Povetkin. That may not make it OK that he got away w/ clinching so much in that fight, but his performance isn't emblematic of his whole career or an entire decade-long time frame.
     
  3. Man_Machine

    Man_Machine Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    It was a distinctly poor era, in which a giant athlete had to cultivate an extreme, safety-first strategy due to very real concerns about his demonstrable fragility. That this was exhibited within a very shallow talent pool, amongst what were often physically over-matched opponents (and considerably so, in most cases), made it all the worse.

    It made for what was, in the main, a succession of laborious spectacles.

    A careful and conservative approach might have been understandable - But Wlad's 'Jab and Grab' antics became a strategic imperative, pretty much from the outset of Manny Steward's tenure (or very soon after it began). This strategy, at times, was taken to absurd degrees. The Povetkin debacle is a case in point - and an utter disgrace.

    Vitali K, as a supporting act during his 2008-2012 return, didn't help matters much. He merely became the ****-filter for Wlad and has a relatively poor resume to show for it. My only concern during Vitali's second title run was that he might not have really meant it, after he'd declared that Charr was his last fight.

    So, yeah - all in all - it was very bad - perhaps dire. The upside of this unfortunate period was that some good fights were seen in the lower divisions, which gained popularity through the more intrepid careers of the smaller fighters.
     
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  4. Man_Machine

    Man_Machine Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    During the period in question, it is precisely so.
     
  5. Totentanz.

    Totentanz. Gator Wrestler Extraordinaire banned Full Member

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    Extremely weak apart from a few select names. Most prior champions would've easily made it to the top 3 range in that era without much struggle.
     
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  6. Kid Bacon

    Kid Bacon All-Time-Fat Full Member

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    A weak era with a mediocre champion and subpar competition. Wlad's long reign is the best proof of how weak that era was.

    I longed for somebody, anybody to end Wlad's boring reign.... and then came Fury FFS.

    Thus careful what you wish for.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2024
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  7. Man_Machine

    Man_Machine Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Fury, at least, has been entertaining.
     
  8. themaster458

    themaster458 Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    I think its over-hated a bit while it was def a weaker era then the 90s I feel a lot of that hate comes because there were no decent Americans/British heavyweights who people could connect with and because it was an era with two domaint champs and eras with dominant champs tend to be considered weaker then those without one. Though were some good fighters in that era that I think are underrated today like Poverkin, Haye, Byrd, Chagaev etc so overall while not the strongest era I think it was overblown how bad it really was.
     
  9. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    There were some good talents but much of it was a very boring and non climactic era in heavyweight boxing. You saw about 3 or 4 waves of contenders and alpha champs who were supposed to be “ the next best thing “ which never materialized
     
  10. The Long Count

    The Long Count Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Bingo.
    A dominant champ always tends to get undersold as being in a weak era. Whether it was Louis’s bum of the month club, or Holmes living in Ali’s shadow as a “boring” champ. Casuals always misread the moment. Anyway Wlad ruling for 12 years is basically two eras not one. 18 consecutive title defenses and something like 25 title fights is almost unheard of today. In any weight class. Case in point what was Tyson’s era 87-90. Lewis era 97-03 Bowe’s era 92-93 and so forth.. I did find Wlad boring both in the ring and out (although he was a classy champion) but he was clearly a level above the field. And his opposition was not that bad sure when you make 18 consecutive title defenses you’ll have a couple of clunkers but Byrd, Haye, Povetkin could fight as could the E. Europeans that started to dominate the field like Chagaev, Ibrigamov.
    He was a dominant champion. He deserves a lot of credit for that, it’s not easy to pick yourself up from the losses the way he did (ask any fighter) and carve out such a legacy. He always came in top shape and was good enough mentally and physically to run the roost for well over 10 years.
     
  11. The Long Count

    The Long Count Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Why didn’t they become “the next best thing” because Wlad stood in the way
     
  12. Totentanz.

    Totentanz. Gator Wrestler Extraordinaire banned Full Member

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    Side tangent, but Chris Byrd kinda reminds me of a weaker Jimmy Young.
     
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  13. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    And none of them did much after losing to Wlad either. Povetkin remained a pretty good fighter for a while. It just wasn’t a great era
     
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  14. Man_Machine

    Man_Machine Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Povetkin was probably the best out there, after Wlad. It's just a shame Wlad had to make such a pig's ear out of their contest.
     
  15. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    A respect the fact that Wlad was a great fighter by virtue of his longevity at the top. But I didn’t enjoy watching him fight. His style was very uninspiring.
     
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