The problem with Juan Manuel Marquez....

Smokin' Joe · Nov 10, 2011

Too... Many... Colours... :dead

Etu86 · Nov 10, 2011

SILENCER said: ↑

read your above two quotes back to yourself!

now when i asked you for your credentials via a p.m you admitted to not having any stating the internet was your education,correct? the above quotation also states you are not not an expert on egypt! (no ****) yet you are going to give a trained archaelogist,who works in egypt,and has a position at a well know university (no way in hell you will find out which though,you parasite) a history lesson???

your a joke,etu and gained haver destroyed u,in fact i dont know why they have took the time to indulge such a halfwit as yourself..

you have been posted tons of scientific data,yet all you ever respond with is a joke ass sentence,you dont even have the decency to address each of there posts in full! you know why? because you cant!

and dont tell me to be quiet you subserviant deluded mongoloid,i suggest you take your own advice before you are humiliated even further and do one!!

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now i will ask you again:

who is kneeling and who is standing? answer!
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Etu86 · Nov 10, 2011

Smokin' Joe said: ↑

Too... Many... Colours... :dead
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Smokin' Joe · Nov 10, 2011

Etu86 said: ↑

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Not to mention inducing epileptic fits.

Nay_Sayer · Nov 10, 2011

Etu86 said: ↑

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Once again;

The nature of the body plan was also investigated by comparing the intermembral, brachial, and crural indices for these samples with values obtained from the literature. No significant differences were found in either index through time for either sex. The raw values in Table 6 suggest that Egyptians had the “super-Negroid” body plan described by Robins (1983). The values for the brachial and crural indices show that the distal segments of each limb are longer relative to the proximal segments than in many “African” populations (data from Aiello and Dean, 1990). This pattern is supported by Figure 7 (a plot of population mean femoral and tibial lengths; data from Ruff, 1994), which indicates that the Egyptians generally have tropical body plans. Of the Egyptian samples, only the Badarian and Early Dynastic period populations have shorter tibiae than predicted from femoral length. Despite these differences, all samples lie relatively clustered together as compared to the other populations.
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Let's not play crazy. YOUR source is confirming that Ancient Egyptians have tropical body plans. However, if you don't want to believe YOUR own source, I can find you another.

Trinkhaus (1981) provides upper and lower extremity distal/proximal member ratios for numerous populations, including a predynastic Egyptian and Meiterranean European series. The predynsatic Egyptian values plotted near tropical Africans, not Mediterranean Europeans. ****** (1897) had observed that these ratios for early Nakada Egyptians were similar to those "Negroes." Robins and Shute (1983, 1986) evaluated predynastic and dynastic limb ratios and found the former to be "supernegroid." They also noted a Negroid ratio in a sample of New Kingdom dynastic remains. This suggests that the ancestors of the southern Egyptians were not cold-adapted immigrants to Africa. A sample of definite northern Egyptians may have given different results.

Studies and Comments on Ancient Egyptian Biological Relationships (1993)

[url]http://wysinger.homestead.com/keita-1993.pdf[/url]
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Skeletal sampling was mainly restricted to sites from Middle and Upper Egypt so that all individuals would have experienced reasonably similar geographical and climatic conditions. Due to the lack of Old Kingdom (OK), skeletal remains from Upper Egypt and one series from Lower Egypt were also analyzed (Gizeh). Site locations are shown in Figure 1. Distances between sites are shown in Table 1.

The selection of skeletal material was mainly pragmatic. For most periods, all available material was assessed, although complete skeletons were preferred over crania alone, and complete crania were selected in preference to fragmentary material. Care was taken to maximize samples from all available time periods. The sampling was also limited by the selection of the material that had been removed from Egypt and thus available for study in museum and university collections. Many collections derive from early excavations, with only individuals of interest being shipped back to the European collector funding the excavation, and hence the material studied may not be completely representative of the cemetery population. Four collections were studied; the Duckworth Collection of the Department of Biological Anthropology in Cambridge, the Egyptian collection of the Natural History Museum in London, the Marro Collection of the
Department of Anthropology and Biology in Turin, and the Reisner Collection of the Natural History Museum in Vienna.

A series of six time-period groups were studied, dating from the Badarian (c. 4000 BC) to the MK (c. 1900 BC). The periods studied were the Badarian, the Early Predynastic (EPD), the LPD, the EDyn, the OK, and MK. Samples (Table 2) were studied only if they could be reliably dated to one of the six periods. The dates in Table 2 are midpoint time period dates and generate a temporal distance matrix. For further details regarding the cemeteries, see Zakrzewski (2003). Analysis was limited to adult individuals, with maturity being determined on the basis of sphenooccipital fusion, full epiphyseal fusion, and complete eruption of the third molars.

The Badarian crania have been characterized by their small and gracile nature (Stoessiger, 1927; Morant, 1935; Strouhal, 1971; Gaballah et al., 1972), and their relatively high degree of facial prognathism (Stoessiger, 1927). The current study supports this description (being placed low on PC1 in Fig. 2, as a result of their short cranial vaults and narrow faces). Furthermore, their phenotypic homogeneity (Fig. 2, Table 5) has been demonstrated. As a result of their facial prognathism, the Badarian sample has been described as forming a morphological cluster with Nubian, Tigrean, and other southern (or \Negroid") groups (Morant, 1935, 1937; Mukherjee et al., 1955; Nutter, 1958, Strouhal, 1971; Angel, 1972; Keita, 1990). Cranial nonmetric trait studies have found this group to be similar to other Egyptians, including much later material (Berry and Berry, 1967, 1972), but also to be significantly different from LPD material (Berry et al., 1967). Similarly, the study of dental nonmetric traits has suggested that the Badarian population is at the centroid of Egyptian dental samples (Irish, 2006), thereby suggesting similarity and hence continuity across Egyptian time periods. From the central location of the Badarian samples in Figure 2, the current study finds the Badarian to be relatively morphologically close to the centroid of all the Egyptian samples. The Badarian have been shown to exhibit greatest morphological similarity with the temporally successive EPD (Table 5). Finally, the biological distinctiveness of the Badarian from other Egyptian samples has also been demonstrated (Tables 6 and 7).

Population Continuity or Population Change:
Formation of the Ancient Egyptian State (2007)
Sonia R. Zakrzewski

[url]http://wysinger.homestead.com/zakrzewski_2007.pdf[/url]
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Are you starting to get the picture now, Genius?

Nay_Sayer · Nov 10, 2011

Etu86 said: ↑

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I see you're not meant to be taken seriously so I'll stop doing so.

It was YOUR argument that haplotype M1 was Asian. My source completely REFUTES that assertion while at the same time completely DESTROYING 75% of your so-called argument.

Once again;

Macrohaplogroup M in Arabia

Macrohaplogroup M is particularly abundant and diverse in South and Southeast Asia, reaching frequencies above 60% in some regions (Metspalu et al., 2004). However, it is practically absent in western Asia (Quintana-Murci et al., 2004). In Africa, only one autochthonous basal branch of M, named M1, has been detected (Quintana-Murci et al., 1999). In this continent it has a predominant northern distribution. M1 is particularly abundant in Ethiopia (20%). From there, frequencies significantly diminish forming decreasing gradients westwards and southwards. It has been proposed that the presence of M1 in Africa and surrounding Mediterranean areas can be explained as result of two expansion centers situated in East and Northwest Africa which are marked by the radiation of subhaplogroups M1a and M1b respectively (Olivieri et al., 2006; González et al., 2007). Although the coalescence age of M1 is Paleolithic it seems that the most important expansions occurred in Neolithic times when the Sahara was a more hospitable region. Some authors consider that the presence of M1 in Africa supports the idea that macrohaplogroup M originated in eastern Africa and was carried towards Asia with the out of Africa expansion (Quintana-Murci et al., 1999), others think that the distribution of M1 in Africa traces an early human backflow to this Continent from Asia (Maca-Meyer et al., 2001; Olivieri et al., 2006; González et al., 2007).

- The Arabian peninsula: Gate for Human Migrations Out of Africa or Cul-de-Sac? A Mitochondrial DNA Phylogeographic Perspective (2009), Vicente M. Cabrera , Khaled K. Abu-Amero , José M. Larruga and Ana M. González
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The question of the origin of M1 is still a matter up for debate.

CAN_YOU_NOT_READ?

Nay_Sayer · Nov 10, 2011

Etu86 said: ↑

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You thought wrong, Genius.

Etu86 · Nov 10, 2011

Nay_Sayer said: ↑

Ironically, the earliest certain images of the white crown come not from Egypt but from Qustul in Lower Nubia, about 300 km up-river from Hierakonpolis. These images occur on two incense burners of uniquely Nubian type, which depict kings seated in archaic high-prowed boats wearing abnormally tall crowns with knobs, accompanied by bulls and Horus falcons (
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pls. 33, 34). They date to about 3300 BC. The same crown then appears not long afterwards in Egypt: on an unprovenienced ivory knife handle in the Metropolitian Museum and, later still, on the Scorpion mace head and Narmer palette (Wilkinson 1999, 1945). The evidence can be interpreted several ways:

a) the white crown was exclusively Egyptian, and it is Egyptian kings who are represented on the Qustul incense burners;
b) the white crown was used simultaneously by competing rulers in Upper Egypt and Lower Nubia; or
c) the white crown was first used in Nubia and spread northwards.

It was obviously associated with riverine kingship (kings in boats), bulls (the Min cult) and the god Horus. The white crown is usually assumed to be a homegrown Egyptian symbolbadge of the kings of the emergent Upper Egyptian state. They obviously pushed the red-crown wearers into Lower Egypt before the advent of the dynastic era. We need at least to consider the possibility, however, that the white crown
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have had a Nubian origin.
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Varying forms of the shrine of Min, showing their similarities to the red and white crowns.
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, they
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simply have adopted their crown, just as they adopted the red crown to legitimize their claims to the north.
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(Baines & Malek 1986, 15).

FACT: The earliest representation of the White Crown is NUBIAN, not Egyptian.
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It may seem surprising, but there is a strong ancient tradition linking the white crown to Upper Nubia. In the first century BC, Diodorus Siculus (3.2.13.6) wrote that at the beginning of time the Egyptians and Nubians (Aithiopians) were one people and that Osiris (i.e. their first king) came from Aithiopia and colonized Egypt after it was created by the out-flowing Nile. This, he states, explains why Nubian and Egyptian customs are similar and why the kings of both countries wear tall pointed felt hats ending in a knob (Eide et al. 1996, 645).Genesis of the Pharaohs: Genesis of the Ka and Crowns?, by Timothy Kendall, American Archaeologist (2010)
[url]http://wysinger.homestead.com/crown.html[/url]

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Etu86 · Nov 10, 2011

FROM CONT

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(Wegner;
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(Shaw;
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Nay_Sayer · Nov 10, 2011

Smokin' Joe said: ↑

Too... Many... Colours... :dead
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...And not enough common sense..

Nay_Sayer · Nov 10, 2011

Etu86 said: ↑

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Sorry Genius but you're quoting old and outdated sources.

Once again;

Ironically, the earliest certain images of the white crown come not from Egypt but from Qustul in Lower Nubia, about 300 km up-river from Hierakonpolis. These images occur on two incense burners of uniquely Nubian type, which depict kings seated in archaic high-prowed boats wearing abnormally tall crowns with knobs, accompanied by bulls and Horus falcons (Williams 1980; 1986, pls. 33, 34). They date to about 3300 BC. The same crown then appears not long afterwards in Egypt: on an unprovenienced ivory knife handle in the Metropolitian Museum and, later still, on the Scorpion mace head and Narmer palette (Wilkinson 1999, 194–5).

Genesis of the Pharaohs: Genesis of the ‘Ka’ and Crowns?, by Timothy Kendall, American Archaeologist (2010)

[url]http://wysinger.homestead.com/crown.html[/url]
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The Qustul incense burner is of a "uniquely Nubian type" and is the earliest known representation of the White Crown. If it's YOUR assertion that the Qustul incense burner was imported, please cite your EVIDENCE.

I'm waiting.

pejevan · Nov 10, 2011

Wtf is that?

I never thought that there would be lots of Egyptologist is esb. I thought there are only peds experts.

Smokin' Joe · Nov 10, 2011

pejevan said: ↑

Wtf is that?

I never thought that there would be lots of Egyptologist is esb. I thought there are only peds experts.
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It's a welcome reprieve from all that horse**** actually. Quite an interesting read.

empiricix · Nov 10, 2011

Damn! The Nubian Nay-Sayer has been massacred and his remains dug up by Egyptologists and re-massacred again! :yep

spats · Nov 10, 2011

Guess its time for nay sayer to change his avatar

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